Death of ICE cars

[FLtrackdays]

My hope would be that someone would do a grid study to determine how many EVs can we currently support before rolling blackouts begin. This already happened in Texas.

From Bing’s chat AI: “Generally, it takes between 75 and 85 kilowatt-hours (kWh) to fully charge a Tesla with a long-range battery” Thus living in Florida my next question was how much kWh does my AC unit require: “A 3-ton air conditioner unit rated at 15 SEER would consume approximately 2.57 kWh of electricity per hour of operation”

I have two units for a larger home (~3000 sq ft). According to my Nest smart thermostat I’m using them about 2-3 hours per day. Much less than what it would take to fully charge a single EV. Even if not charging the EV fully, it’d would require more than the 25 kWh/day that I‘m using in the summer to keep the house comfortable, to support one EV vehicle.

With only about 1% of EVs currently on the road (also according to AI), wouldn’t it make sense to do a study to see how much each city & state’s electrical grid can supply/generate/put out? And how are we going to make up this deficit if we’re at say 5, 10, 20, or even 50% EV on the road. ”According to the White House, President Biden has set a goal for electric vehicles to make up 50% of all new vehicle sales in the United States by 2030.“ - from Bing’s AI chat as well.

I think it’s worth consideration and should be brought up by the car magazines, politicians, media in general. Where will all this extra energy come from if we don’t let the market drive the natural progression of EV use?

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[XtremeMaC]

With only about 1% of EVs currently on the road (also according to AI), wouldn’t it make sense to do a study to see how much each city & state’s electrical grid can supply/generate/put out?

Internet warriors like us are indeed doing that. I see on Reddit/FB/etc. many people on both sides giving out credible sources of articles. Some say we're borrowing electric from xyz, some are saying there is over production. Varies from state to state..

Wind: Some are saying wind turbines are great. some are saying not so much. can't recycle. some say can be recycled. bad for birds. etc. etc.

Solar: great advancements. cost of production went down drastically. roof installs increased.

Storage: At the same time, there are companies like Tesla doing MegaPacks, small installs of energy storage for when demand is high..

But, you read all and someone always points out that Person A is an advocate for X, Person B is lobbyist, . Person C has stake in the game.. Don't know what to believe..

So, things are going in the "right" direction for clean renewable energy, but infrastructure.. not so sure.
A wind knocks out a pole and whole city is fucked for days. Happened to us few weeks ago. Had no power or cell reception or cell data for 4 days! Researching generators since. haven't pulled the trigger yet.
If you have a large battery backup, or gas line powered generator or like F150 or whatever with generator on board or in this case a Tesla that can feed power to your home, you can survive outages. If the health of battery was to be kept fairly stable, you could indeed even feed back to the grid. It makes sense in theory. You're like, yeah, electrons will flow back into grid? what? no. How are you feeding the grid. Where is the storage, li-ion? ultra-capacitor. Just powering your house? Who is doing the balancing. Will you be required to be plugged in to power the grid. Is it optional? Will I set the $ rate for selling. Maybe I've hundreds of batteries... Many questions, complicated ones.
Committees can't even decide on what to eat for lunch. That's where I feel Elon's pain with FSD. Dudes don't understand or have any policies for level 2+ autonomous and Elon and others are trying to push for level 6. Same with AI. it's out there. 0 policies. AI cannot unlearn....

I was also reading about the Tesla trucks. Where and how will they charge on the road once all gas and diesel trucks are electric? Yes, there are already truck stops with chargers, etc. but that's still complicated and not enough. There is already shortage of drivers, etc. and transit costs have increased. Your overnight delivery will get a note saying, "sorry, charging station was full, can't make the delivery today".. but then Tesla claims you can charge Model 3 to 147miles of range within 15 mins.. There are claims, there are actualities. Supercharges go down as well. Many YT, TT videos and articles..

In the end what's concerning is, once these supercharges are demanding peak power, will power stations start catching fire ? what's the load shedding/mitigation. Do they slow down charging rate..

questions questions..

 

[Tacoma714]

Headline: “Following California’s lead, state will likely ban all sales of new gas-powered cars by 2035”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...s-of-new-gas-powered-cars-by-2035/ar-AA11b3Tb

Time to up battery production and power grids! Y’all ready?

It will takes YEARS for you to be unable to drive your ICE vehicle due to no gas stations being around after 2035. I have a prediction: The generation that grew up liking these 90s and 2020s cars will be the future collectors of these last ICE engines. We will miss the feeling of turbo spooling, exhaust notes, shifting gears, etc. I'm not saying ICE is better than Electric, Hybrid or the like. EVs will smoke ICE vehicles any day. But once you have pressed the pedal and felt the torque from a Model S Plaid once, it gets old fast. Even if Hyundai comes out with a "shifter" for their N model cars, we will miss the good ol days and there will be collectors keeping these cars. The younger generation though like who are kids now might not grow up to like our cars which is where I think ICE slowly dies off and EVs or what ever explode in popularity.

 

[GoldenEye]

I was worried for a min until you said this:

President Biden has set a goal for electric vehicles to make up 50% of all new vehicle sales in the United States by 2030.“

Now I'm at ease, he probably already forgot he said that... ? ?

 

[PerformanceSound]

I was worried for a min until you said this:

Now I'm at ease, he probably already forgot he said that... ? ?

...too busy giving his opinion on ice cream flavors ?

 

[J29DB03]

Now I'm at ease, he probably already forgot he said that... ? ?

That would imply he even knew that he said it in the first place.

 

[gixxersixxerman]

But once you have pressed the pedal and felt the torque from a Model S Plaid once, it gets old fast.

Im not sure I agree here, the rest of the time the car may be “boring” to drive. But even a M3P hasn’t bored me yet over the course of the last 2 years having one available at the shop.

Honestly if you have a EV and live in an area where solar actually makes a difference then I’m not sure why you wouldn’t use solar. Here in the desert it “costs” a couple dollars a day for 170 mile round trip for my father in his EV6. I put “costs” because yeah the solar and battery pack cost money. But it worked out great for him there in SoCal. Now that he moved to southern Ga and doesn’t have solar, it’s a lot more. But he is looking to sell the car now. It just hasn’t been as convenient there as it is in SoCal where there is a decent infrastructure for charging.

 

[Tacoma714]

Im not sure I agree here, the rest of the time the car may be “boring” to drive. But even a M3P hasn’t bored me yet over the course of the last 2 years having one available at the shop.

Honestly if you have a EV and live in an area where solar actually makes a difference then I’m not sure why you wouldn’t use solar. Here in the desert it “costs” a couple dollars a day for 170 mile round trip for my father in his EV6. I put “costs” because yeah the solar and battery pack cost money. But it worked out great for him there in SoCal. Now that he moved to southern Ga and doesn’t have solar, it’s a lot more. But he is looking to sell the car now. It just hasn’t been as convenient there as it is in SoCal where there is a decent infrastructure for charging.

EV performance cars in the near future will get to 0-60mph in 2 seconds and that will be the standard. Once that happens, people will crave the connection they once had. The truth is the government wants to get us out of ICE cars and into EVs and ultimately maybe not even own cars. I truly enjoy the feeling of downshifting, brake boosting, etc. As I have stated on other threads, I work in the financial field a high pressure investing sales job and 100% self employed. Married, having a mortgage, 2 toddlers, bills, etc., the little joys in life that I have that disconnect me from my stress are driving my ICE sports car and going for a rip on the weekends. I think the perfect combo is an EV at home with an enthusiast ICE vehicle for weekend fun.

 

[MYA90SUPRA]

My hope would be that someone would do a grid study to determine how many EVs can we currently support before rolling blackouts begin. This already happened in Texas.

From Bing’s chat AI: “Generally, it takes between 75 and 85 kilowatt-hours (kWh) to fully charge a Tesla with a long-range battery” Thus living in Florida my next question was how much kWh does my AC unit require: “A 3-ton air conditioner unit rated at 15 SEER would consume approximately 2.57 kWh of electricity per hour of operation”

I have two units for a larger home (~3000 sq ft). According to my Nest smart thermostat I’m using them about 2-3 hours per day. Much less than what it would take to fully charge a single EV. Even if not charging the EV fully, it’d would require more than the 25 kWh/day that I‘m using in the summer to keep the house comfortable, to support one EV vehicle.

With only about 1% of EVs currently on the road (also according to AI), wouldn’t it make sense to do a study to see how much each city & state’s electrical grid can supply/generate/put out? And how are we going to make up this deficit if we’re at say 5, 10, 20, or even 50% EV on the road. ”According to the White House, President Biden has set a goal for electric vehicles to make up 50% of all new vehicle sales in the United States by 2030.“ - from Bing’s AI chat as well.

I think it’s worth consideration and should be brought up by the car magazines, politicians, media in general. Where will all this extra energy come from if we don’t let the market drive the natural progression of EV use?

I'm sure they will say something about how solar and windmills are going up at record pace. Granted I'm not against solar and windmills I'm against putting most of our electric needs into something we can't control.

I think our grid should be 30-35% fossil fuels, 20% renewable, and the rest nuclear. Not most of the grid on renewable.

Here in gillette wyoming on the wyodack coal power plant they have test scrubbers and hardly any bad emissions come out of it. Wyoming coal also has rare earth minerals inside the coal for making certain electronics which the state is trying to find a cost effective way to remove it from coal ash.

Biggest thing I dont like about renewable energy boost that the government is doing is that most of the material to make solar panels and or manufacturing of said items is not done here in the states. We need to be more self reliant as a country.

 

[FLtrackdays]

I'm sure they will say something about how solar and windmills are going up at record pace. Granted I'm not against solar and windmills I'm against putting most of our electric needs into something we can't control.

I think our grid should be 30-35% fossil fuels, 20% renewable, and the rest nuclear. Not most of the grid on renewable.

Here in gillette wyoming on the wyodack coal power plant they have test scrubbers and hardly any bad emissions come out of it. Wyoming coal also has rare earth minerals inside the coal for making certain electronics which the state is trying to find a cost effective way to remove it from coal ash.

Biggest thing I dont like about renewable energy boost that the government is doing is that most of the material to make solar panels and or manufacturing of said items is not done here in the states. We need to be more self reliant as a country.

Great points. I like EVs. I think they are the future. I even want one! But I’m not sure what the power supply mix should be or if they are even considering it as much as you have. If we’re to blindly push forward at all cost, that should warrant a few questions, you’d think. Share the information wealth people! So I pumped in some GPT4 Bing AI questions. Instead of reading only roses ? that will grow with this rapid conversion in our beloved car magazines.

It appears the only way our grids can support such a massive power increase, would be to release the beast - nuclear power. Something that hasn’t been done in ages. If we’re to truly get away from fossil fuel at warp speeds w/out massive cuts (blackouts).

Here’s some of the basic GPT4 answers to questions I asked: (copied and pasted below) the nuclear reactor would generate 5,098,320 MWh , Solar average daily output of about 5.88 MWh per day. Wind assuming it blew perfectly strongly 24 hours a day translates to an average daily output of about 12 MWh per day.

Phew ?‍?…. then, I asked it to put the info into a table.

Power Plant Type	Average Annual Output (MWh)
Nuclear	5,098,320
Solar	2,146
Wind	4,380
Coal	774 million
Gas	Varies

Gas was removed from the AI engine in various forms (questions) I was asking. Understandable as it is a hot topic right now. So I can assume it puts out more than solar and wind but less than nuclear. Coal we can’t consider because too many activist lives could be at stake if we continue down that path (think Greta). No matter how clean they make it. So we’re left with nuclear if we want to supply more than just low populated areas. Or do without ? ?

The supply is just not there to get us at 3, 4, or 5% EVs - let alone 50% ? So…. focus should be on less effort into putting Elon in jail and just ask him & other real experts (not Greta, AOC and John Kerry). If this is an absolute no turning back, blind push forward. Would make sense to let us know what‘s the plan and cost, or if that’s even being considered at all ?‍

 

[XtremeMaC]

I was like, I've not heard of new nuclear pp installment in ages and voila a new one became operational in Aug 1st, 2023.

After all issues in the past and recent past with Japan, it's understandable to stay away from it. Liability and all that. but hey, some have the guts!

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/d...actor at Georgia's,2 was commissioned in 2016.


The new 1,114 megawatt (MW) Unit 3 reactor joins two existing reactors at Plant Vogtle, which is jointly owned by Georgia Power and three other electric utility companies. The plant’s first two reactors, with a combined 2,430 MW of nameplate capacity, came online in the late 1980s. Georgia Power expects another similar-sized fourth reactor, Vogtle Unit 4, to begin operation sometime between November 2023 and March 2024. The two new reactors will make Plant Vogtle the largest nuclear power plant in the country, surpassing the 4,210 MW Palo Verde plant in Arizona.

Construction at the two new reactor sites began in 2009. Originally expected to cost $14 billion and begin commercial operation in 2016 (Vogtle 3) and 2017 (Vogtle 4), the project ran into significant construction delays and cost overruns. The total cost of the project is now estimated at more than $30 billion.

The US is getting its first new nuclear reactor in 40 years

https://grist.org/energy/first-us-nuclear-reactor-40-years-online-georgia/

 

[PerformanceSound]

The biggest problem with electrical grids is not power generation as most people think….but power quality. Electricity is a different animal in how it is delivered vs gasoline. Gasoline’s logistics is very easy, reliable, and very cost effective. Electricity needs distribution centers to kick up or kick down power to deliver, and once that power is delivered it has to be “filtered.” This is called power quality. Electricity has frequency and waves that if delivered incorrectly, will burn equipment on the delivery end almost instantly. This is extremely expensive and requires endless maintenance.

 

[XtremeMaC]

The biggest problem with electrical grids is not power generation as most people think….but power quality. Electricity is a different animal in how it is delivered vs gasoline. Gasoline’s logistics is very easy, reliable, and very cost effective. Electricity needs distribution centers to kick up or kick down power to deliver, and once that power is delivered it has to be “filtered.” This is called power quality. Electricity has frequency and waves that if delivered incorrectly, will burn equipment on the delivery end almost instantly. This is extremely expensive and requires endless maintenance.

that's propaganda, it's horseshit. You must still be burning coal. Where is your electrical degree from? I've been using electricity for the past 50 years and never heard of this. I plug my phone in and it charges, ok? What is this, 10G or something? We don't want government controlling our frequencies and waves. ? /sarcasm...

 

[PerformanceSound]

that's propaganda, it's horseshit. You must still be burning coal. Where is your electrical degree from? I've been using electricity for the past 50 years and never heard of this. I plug my phone in and it charges, ok? What is this, 10G or something? We don't want government controlling our frequencies and waves. ? /sarcasm...

Lol. We’ve all gotten so use to just plugging things in to a 110v outlet and they work that we don’t question where or how our power is delivered. California is learning the hard way.

 

[lucky phil]

that's propaganda, it's horseshit. You must still be burning coal. Where is your electrical degree from? I've been using electricity for the past 50 years and never heard of this. I plug my phone in and it charges, ok? What is this, 10G or something? We don't want government controlling our frequencies and waves. ? /sarcasm...

Well although not well explained technically it's basically true. The electricity system needs to respond to loads and generators are brought on line and off line as part of that process for different hours of the day and different circumstances. So hot nights with everyone at home with their A/C's on is a different load profile on the system to middle of a cool day or weekend. It also needs the frequency held to fairly tight tolerances so the US works on 115 volts and 60HZ where here its 240/50. If the frequency goes wild then it's good by Irene to your electrically powered stuff. It's part of the reason that having renewables like solar fitted to houses and inputting energy back into the grid makes it hard to manage for the grid supplier.
The poster was just outlining some of the complications I think in delivering electricity to the average power outlet. In the background there's complex "stuff" going on.

Phil

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