Death of ICE cars

[FLtrackdays]

The wheels on that 998 concept/prototype are much too large and I would like to see a milder rear wing or spoiler available but it otherwise looks promising.

Let's see how it turns out in production form though.

Porsche has the right attitude prioritizing lightness and size even at the expense of battery pack size and weight. The battery technology will get better but a car designed to be overweight and too big from the start doesn't do it favors in the long run.

Power to weight matters regardless of how she’s propelled. Great point! I’d love to see more hybrids (broken record). Also like how these batteries are getting safer, smaller, lasting longer, charging quicker & hopefully cheaper as well.

Sponsored

 

[XtremeMaC]

*ding ding ding
Toyota Adopts the North American Charging Standard to Expand Customer Charging Options , 2025--> Tesla Charging


https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota...standard-to-expand-customer-charging-options/

Elon spent the monies, why should we. Who's next?

 

[KahnBB6]

*ding ding ding
Toyota Adopts the North American Charging Standard to Expand Customer Charging Options , 2025--> Tesla Charging


https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota...standard-to-expand-customer-charging-options/

Elon spent the monies, why should we. Who's next?

Ugh... I loathe that guy so much and am not pleased with his own charging connector and standard becoming widely adopted. The less reliance we have on Elon Musk and his companies the better (although if they were to simply oust him and divorce themselves of him completely I'd likely change my tune).

However I can't argue with what I observed firsthand on a recent visit to L.A. with many frequent rides in my friend's Model 3: that the most reliable and trouble-free chargers she went to were always the ones owned by Tesla. Others worked most of the time but were always more complicated to get going and keep going consistently.

So this is not a surprising development on Toyota's part. If the standard works well and reliably and has a very high chance of covering the most ground then it's hard not to see why so many automakers are suddenly switching over to it.

(Aside, given Tesla's track record with anyone doing even the most minute modifications to their cars they'd better not make EV charging for totally custom built electric kit cars and electric converted classic cars an issue.)

 

[KahnBB6]

Power to weight matters regardless of how she’s propelled. Great point! I’d love to see more hybrids (broken record). Also like how these batteries are getting safer, smaller, lasting longer, charging quicker & hopefully cheaper as well.

Porsche looks to be working on hybrid technology for their bread and butter SUVs which sell in high volumes and also to keep the flat-6 and manual transmission in the 911 alive as long as they can right up to the point that they can't sell anything ICE any longer.

But they are also pushing heavy into rapidly improving all they can as fast as possible for the Cayman/Boxster EV generation to get it as right as they can with the non-flagship sportscar before the time comes that the entire range will have to be 100% EV.

I can see the balancing act they must walk and it can't be easy for them. But I love it that they are fully committed to keeping the ICE 911 (and its manual transmission) alive even in hybrid form for as long as they can while at the same time working towards keeping their sportscar ethos and driver engagement alive in a fully electric future.

Toyota GR seems to be the one with a hybrid-heavy gameplan through 2030 or so. And alongside that they are also investing heavily into better EV tech for the inevitable that they will face just as Porsche will in coming years.

Both companies operate at different scales with different product lineups marketed differently rom one another... but both are keeping one foot in ICE with the other in BEV to keep alive their best for a few years while preparing their next generation best for later.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Ugh... I loathe that guy so much and am not pleased with his own charging connector and standard becoming widely adopted. The less reliance we have on Elon Musk and his companies the better (although if they were to simply oust him and divorce themselves of him completely I'd likely change my tune).

However I can't argue with what I observed firsthand on a recent visit to L.A. with many frequent rides in my friend's Model 3: that the most reliable and trouble-free chargers she went to were always the ones owned by Tesla. Others worked most of the time but were always more complicated to get going and keep going consistently.

So this is not a surprising development on Toyota's part. If the standard works well and reliably and has a very high chance of covering the most ground then it's hard not to see why so many automakers are suddenly switching over to it.

(Aside, given Tesla's track record with anyone doing even the most minute modifications to their cars they'd better not make EV charging for totally custom built electric kit cars and electric converted classic cars an issue.)

Tomas Edison wasn’t without controversy. I personally like what he’s done and his knowledge. Fun little video below. Full length even better

 

[KahnBB6]

Tomas Edison wasn’t without controversy. I personally like what he’s done and his knowledge. Fun little video below. Full length even better

Thomas Edison wasn't a perfect man by a long shot but Elon Musk isn't remotely in the same league as Edison. Comparing the two doesn't make any sense.

For all his pomp and circumstance Musk isn't much of an engineer or visionary. He HIRES people who are far better engineers than he is... burns them out... and hires new people to take their place once they've had enough of his antics. It's one way to run a company I guess but even Steve Jobs did the same method far better than Musk does with all the collateral damage that caused-- and Jobs got far better results on average over the long haul.

As for the video above, I've seen it. It similarly does nothing for me other than to show he's just being argumentative and defensive when pressed about the horrendous BS he spews on Twitter on a daily basis with zero restraint. The journalist was indeed foolishly unprepared with *any* examples to cite to Musk in the interview and so I don't know how that guy was allowed to hold the interview... but you hardly have to do a google search to come up with seemingly endless hateful and/or idiotic Twitter posts he's made over the last few years even before he bought the social media company.

I don't want to divert into Musk's problematic issues here any further as this is a car enthusiast forum and it gets into things far off the rails from the topic of this thread.

In the long game I can envision a Tesla company (and SpaceX) without Musk as CEO and figurehead in which the actual people who do the work in both are able to push forward and make headway with good technology and products free of his ego and missteps.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Thomas Edison wasn't a perfect man by a long shot but Elon Musk isn't remotely in the same league as Edison. Comparing the two doesn't make any sense.

For all his pomp and circumstance Musk isn't much of an engineer or visionary. He HIRES people who are far better engineers than he is... burns them out... and hires new people to take their place once they've had enough of his antics. It's one way to run a company I guess but even Steve Jobs did the same method far better than Musk does with all the collateral damage that caused-- and Jobs got far better results on average over the long haul.

As for the video above, I've seen it. It similarly does nothing for me other than to show he's just being argumentative and defensive when pressed about the horrendous BS he spews on Twitter on a daily basis with zero restraint. The journalist was indeed foolishly unprepared with *any* examples to cite to Musk in the interview and so I don't know how that guy was allowed to hold the interview... but you hardly have to do a google search to come up with seemingly endless hateful and/or idiotic Twitter posts he's made over the last few years even before he bought the social media company.

I don't want to divert into Musk's problematic issues here any further as this is a car enthusiast forum and it gets into things far off the rails from the topic of this thread.

In the long game I can envision a Tesla company (and SpaceX) without Musk as CEO and figurehead in which the actual people who do the work in both are able to push forward and make headway with good technology and products free of his ego and missteps.

I like that he speaks freely and points out how most people (not you) are simply emotional w/out doing their own research- that video exemplifies today’s modern media in general. He’s propelled battery & rocket technology beyond what even NASA said was possible. He doesn’t let others hold him down. That can definitely come across as an ass for sure. Moved here for the American “we can do anything we put our minds to“ mentality. At least he claims in interviews.

When I started this thread, the “media” with very little research claimed we’ve arrived! ICE cars are dead, we can set an end date, EVs are flawless (at least lets not print it). I think we all know it’s not that simple. Neither is Elon bad. ICE bad. EV good. EV bad. There’s lots of factors in between. And we’re all allowed our differences of opinions. Which is GREAT! When we loose that however, ingenuity will be lost. This is what makes America great imo. The brightest and best will continue to come. As long as we fight for freedom over mass conformity.

I really hope we move to hybrid and batteries continue to improve. I’d hate to be dependent on another country for our energy needs. Hydrogen would be another cool option. If the lobbyists can get behind it. Unfortunately there’s a lot of money pushing us in one direction. So we really need someone on the outside looking in, imo. More options the better.

 

[lucky phil]

I like that he speaks freely and points out how most people (not you) are simply emotional w/out doing their own research- that video exemplifies today’s modern media in general. He’s propelled battery & rocket technology beyond what even NASA said was possible. He doesn’t let others hold him down. That can definitely come across as an ass for sure. Moved here for the American “we can do anything we put our minds to“ mentality. At least he claims in interviews.

When I started this thread, the “media” with very little research claimed we’ve arrived! ICE cars are dead, we can set an end date, EVs are flawless (at least lets not print it). I think we all know it’s not that simple. Neither is Elon bad. ICE bad. EV good. EV bad. There’s lots of factors in between. And we’re all allowed our differences of opinions. Which is GREAT! When we loose that however, ingenuity will be lost. This is what makes America great imo. The brightest and best will continue to come. As long as we fight for freedom over mass conformity.

I really hope we move to hybrid and batteries continue to improve. I’d hate to be dependent on another country for our energy needs. Hydrogen would be another cool option. If the lobbyists can get behind it. Unfortunately there’s a lot of money pushing us in one direction. So we really need someone on the outside looking in, imo. More options the better.

If you want to get a reality check on the energy transition and the death of the ICE this is worth 47min of your time.

Phil

 

[MyCorolla]

When I started this thread, the “media” with very little research claimed we’ve arrived! ICE cars are dead, we can set an end date, EVs are flawless (at least lets not print it). I think we all know it’s not that simple. Neither is Elon bad. ICE bad. EV good. EV bad. There’s lots of factors in between. And we’re all allowed our differences of opinions. Which is GREAT! When we loose that however, ingenuity will be lost. This is what makes America great imo. The brightest and best will continue to come. As long as we fight for freedom over mass conformity.

Apart from the whole mining of elements used in current batteries not being really green, and the modern slavery/child-labor exploitation that goes with it, there’s one thing the media doesn’t mention: heat. Batteries generate heat while charging and while driving. I don’t know if anyone has done any studies in that area, but I can imagine as more BEVs hit the road, it is just matter of time before someone realizes they’re contributing to ”global warming”. Someone will develop a new energy technology, and soon thereafter BEVs will become extinct. Per Moore’s law, that might be sooner than we think.

 

[XtremeMaC]

heat. Batteries generate heat while charging and while driving. I don’t know if anyone has done any studies in that area, but I can imagine as more BEVs hit the road, it is just matter of time before someone realizes they’re contributing to ”global warming”. Someone will develop a new energy technology, and soon thereafter BEVs will become extinct. Per Moore’s law, that might be sooner than we think.

Batteries need to work at optimum heat for efficiency during both charging and discharging. It's in the best interest of OEMs and consumer that it's strictly maintained..
While I don't exactly know the total heat dissipated, I'm 100% sure it's significantly lower than what an ICE generates. Can't comment on during production, well to wheel..

 

[KahnBB6]

I like that he speaks freely and points out how most people (not you) are simply emotional w/out doing their own research- that video exemplifies today’s modern media in general. He’s propelled battery & rocket technology beyond what even NASA said was possible. He doesn’t let others hold him down. That can definitely come across as an ass for sure. Moved here for the American “we can do anything we put our minds to“ mentality. At least he claims in interviews.

He speaks freely all right... as one of the most petty, homophobic, racist, extremist-loving, perpetually immature and whiny dickheads I've ever had the displeasure of having to listen to. I speak my mind freely too but I don't feel any burning desire to in the way he does about people.

The interviewer in that video absolutely made me smack my forehead in disgust. It was so easy to cite Musk a huge list of such grievances and reactions from people and the fact that he came to the interview totally unprepared...? Yeesh. He should have known better than to be so careless. Now Musk gets to point at the short clip and say, "See?! All these claims about me are false!"

The news outlet, whatever it was, shouldn't have sent such a green journalist on that job knowing full well that you need to be able to back up anything you say with someone like Musk.

I know you were meaning to use the video as a general example of course, but it's only one of many, many such interactions that Musk has with people both on and off camera.

Musk is very smart in a narrow range of physics and engineering and is very good at convincing *most* people that he is more adept than he actually is. But when pressed by engineers who might actually know the right questions to ask he chooses not to engage further or tap dances and segues. He also suffers from the age-old problem of someone believing that just because they're good at a couple of things that must mean they are good at pretty much anything they want to apply themselves to.

I'm afraid I am just not a fan of the guy, nor am I impressed with his own capabilities and vision as an engineer. I am however very impressed with some of the skilled and talented people he hires into his companies... but those folks aren't always able to show their best work in the most positive light under his management. Sometimes they can. Sometimes they can't.

The trouble with NASA's technology being behind that of SpaceX has had more to do with the way the agency, its funding and legacy contracts have been allowed to operate for decades. SpaceX comes along with some improved paradigms and some greater efficiencies at the cost of higher risk to reward ratios and of course it was going to shake things up.

SpaceX is the star of the space industry stage right now but in the long term you will see several more compete with them as space commerce and travel in general grow in scope through this century.

When I started this thread, the “media” with very little research claimed we’ve arrived! ICE cars are dead, we can set an end date, EVs are flawless (at least lets not print it). I think we all know it’s not that simple. Neither is Elon bad. ICE bad. EV good. EV bad. There’s lots of factors in between. And we’re all allowed our differences of opinions. Which is GREAT! When we loose that however, ingenuity will be lost. This is what makes America great imo. The brightest and best will continue to come. As long as we fight for freedom over mass conformity.

I really hope we move to hybrid and batteries continue to improve. I’d hate to be dependent on another country for our energy needs. Hydrogen would be another cool option. If the lobbyists can get behind it. Unfortunately there’s a lot of money pushing us in one direction. So we really need someone on the outside looking in, imo. More options the better.

In terms of what production ready full electric technology we have to work with right now... and also how automakers are still not quite getting the vehicles themselves right with it... we're still on a journey with all of that.

Lithium-ion batteries aren't going to cut it at large scale as we all know. The high volume and much improved range, longevity, safety (as to thermal runaway concerns), and drive-ability are things that will be improved over time with things like solid state technology, ultra-capacitors and in the interim yes we're going to see far better hybrids than we have been given as options in the past.

Media outlets certainly tooted the "ICEs are dead tomorrow!" horn far too quickly before the technology was so perfect that no caveats remained. Yet the government led climate impact mitigating target years for partial and full electrification of vehicles is a very separate matter from media outlet hype.

I've got far more criticism with premature news hype around the extinction of the steering wheel and human driving controls amidst tech industry claims that automated driving technology was not only going to be ready for prime time just a couple of years ago but was also going to be universally accepted by everyone and wanted by everyone.

And that's a totally separate discussion from drivetrain and transportation energy infrastructure electrification.

It's a long term transition from one energy economy and technology to another. The ICE's that we really love aren't going anywhere for a long time even if they aren't built in new cars past 2035. Hybrid gas-electrics are going to be the next predominant wave for standard offerings over the next ten years or so alongside battery EVs.

In the midst of all that I think the larger charging infrastructure, electrical grid and battery pack and other vehicle specific issues will gradually get closer to being sorted out.

I really, really like the idea of using hydrogen but the more research I have done into it the more I am feeling that it's best for high level funded racing use rather than street use. Further, e-fuels solve every single major issue and challenge that is presented by a combustion hydrogen engine powered vehicle on the street. But that will be a fuel that we'll continue to use in the future in the cars we like right now and in the cool combustion models that we like that will be made for the next 12 years.

I do feel that at current time hydrogen fuel cell stack powered heavy machinery and heavy industrial vehicles (including cargo ships) makes a lot more sense. However maybe even that paradigm will be made obsolete within 10-15 years with next generation battery technology.

This whole thing is a long process and it's going to take time.

For the purposes of people like us on this forum I really want to see purpose built fun to drive vehicles continue to be made which maintain emphasis on driver-centric interiors, driver engagement, and modification friendly special cars both on the affordable and high end of the market.

Currently the writing on the wall seems to point towards conventional lithium-ion battery packs being OK for some normal everyday cars. However the next generation tech is what will likely start making folks like us much happier with electric efforts... so long as the cars they're in are actually made to be fun and not soul-suckingly boring peoplemovers.

 

[zrk]

He speaks freely all right... as one of the most petty, homophobic, racist, extremist-loving, perpetually immature and whiny dickheads I've ever had the displeasure of having to listen to. I speak my mind freely too but I don't feel any burning desire to in the way he does about people.

The interviewer in that video absolutely made me smack my forehead in disgust. It was so easy to cite Musk a huge list of such grievances and reactions from people and the fact that he came to the interview totally unprepared...? Yeesh. He should have known better than to be so careless. Now Musk gets to point at the short clip and say, "See?! All these claims about me are false!"

The news outlet, whatever it was, shouldn't have sent such a green journalist on that job knowing full well that you need to be able to back up anything you say with someone like Musk.

I know you were meaning to use the video as a general example of course, but it's only one of many, many such interactions that Musk has with people both on and off camera.

Musk is very smart in a narrow range of physics and engineering and is very good at convincing *most* people that he is more adept than he actually is. But when pressed by engineers who might actually know the right questions to ask he chooses not to engage further or tap dances and segues. He also suffers from the age-old problem of someone believing that just because they're good at a couple of things that must mean they are good at pretty much anything they want to apply themselves to.

I'm afraid I am just not a fan of the guy, nor am I impressed with his own capabilities and vision as an engineer. I am however very impressed with some of the skilled and talented people he hires into his companies... but those folks aren't always able to show their best work in the most positive light under his management. Sometimes they can. Sometimes they can't.

The trouble with NASA's technology being behind that of SpaceX has had more to do with the way the agency, its funding and legacy contracts have been allowed to operate for decades. SpaceX comes along with some improved paradigms and some greater efficiencies at the cost of higher risk to reward ratios and of course it was going to shake things up.

SpaceX is the star of the space industry stage right now but in the long term you will see several more compete with them as space commerce and travel in general grow in scope through this century.




In terms of what production ready full electric technology we have to work with right now... and also how automakers are still not quite getting the vehicles themselves right with it... we're still on a journey with all of that.

Lithium-ion batteries aren't going to cut it at large scale as we all know. The high volume and much improved range, longevity, safety (as to thermal runaway concerns), and drive-ability are things that will be improved over time with things like solid state technology, ultra-capacitors and in the interim yes we're going to see far better hybrids than we have been given as options in the past.

Media outlets certainly tooted the "ICEs are dead tomorrow!" horn far too quickly before the technology was so perfect that no caveats remained. Yet the government led climate impact mitigating target years for partial and full electrification of vehicles is a very separate matter from media outlet hype.

I've got far more criticism with premature news hype around the extinction of the steering wheel and human driving controls amidst tech industry claims that automated driving technology was not only going to be ready for prime time just a couple of years ago but was also going to be universally accepted by everyone and wanted by everyone.

And that's a totally separate discussion from drivetrain and transportation energy infrastructure electrification.

It's a long term transition from one energy economy and technology to another. The ICE's that we really love aren't going anywhere for a long time even if they aren't built in new cars past 2035. Hybrid gas-electrics are going to be the next predominant wave for standard offerings over the next ten years or so alongside battery EVs.

In the midst of all that I think the larger charging infrastructure, electrical grid and battery pack and other vehicle specific issues will gradually get closer to being sorted out.

I really, really like the idea of using hydrogen but the more research I have done into it the more I am feeling that it's best for high level funded racing use rather than street use. Further, e-fuels solve every single major issue and challenge that is presented by a combustion hydrogen engine powered vehicle on the street. But that will be a fuel that we'll continue to use in the future in the cars we like right now and in the cool combustion models that we like that will be made for the next 12 years.

I do feel that at current time hydrogen fuel cell stack powered heavy machinery and heavy industrial vehicles (including cargo ships) makes a lot more sense. However maybe even that paradigm will be made obsolete within 10-15 years with next generation battery technology.

This whole thing is a long process and it's going to take time.

For the purposes of people like us on this forum I really want to see purpose built fun to drive vehicles continue to be made which maintain emphasis on driver-centric interiors, driver engagement, and modification friendly special cars both on the affordable and high end of the market.

Currently the writing on the wall seems to point towards conventional lithium-ion battery packs being OK for some normal everyday cars. However the next generation tech is what will likely start making folks like us much happier with electric efforts... so long as the cars they're in are actually made to be fun and not soul-suckingly boring peoplemovers.

This guy fucks

 

[FLtrackdays]

He speaks freely all right... as one of the most petty, homophobic, racist, extremist-loving, perpetually immature and whiny dickheads I've ever had the displeasure of having to listen to. I speak my mind freely too but I don't feel any burning desire to in the way he does about people.

The interviewer in that video absolutely made me smack my forehead in disgust. It was so easy to cite Musk a huge list of such grievances and reactions from people and the fact that he came to the interview totally unprepared...? Yeesh. He should have known better than to be so careless. Now Musk gets to point at the short clip and say, "See?! All these claims about me are false!"

The news outlet, whatever it was, shouldn't have sent such a green journalist on that job knowing full well that you need to be able to back up anything you say with someone like Musk.

I know you were meaning to use the video as a general example of course, but it's only one of many, many such interactions that Musk has with people both on and off camera.

Musk is very smart in a narrow range of physics and engineering and is very good at convincing *most* people that he is more adept than he actually is. But when pressed by engineers who might actually know the right questions to ask he chooses not to engage further or tap dances and segues. He also suffers from the age-old problem of someone believing that just because they're good at a couple of things that must mean they are good at pretty much anything they want to apply themselves to.

I'm afraid I am just not a fan of the guy, nor am I impressed with his own capabilities and vision as an engineer. I am however very impressed with some of the skilled and talented people he hires into his companies... but those folks aren't always able to show their best work in the most positive light under his management. Sometimes they can. Sometimes they can't.

The trouble with NASA's technology being behind that of SpaceX has had more to do with the way the agency, its funding and legacy contracts have been allowed to operate for decades. SpaceX comes along with some improved paradigms and some greater efficiencies at the cost of higher risk to reward ratios and of course it was going to shake things up.

SpaceX is the star of the space industry stage right now but in the long term you will see several more compete with them as space commerce and travel in general grow in scope through this century.




In terms of what production ready full electric technology we have to work with right now... and also how automakers are still not quite getting the vehicles themselves right with it... we're still on a journey with all of that.

Lithium-ion batteries aren't going to cut it at large scale as we all know. The high volume and much improved range, longevity, safety (as to thermal runaway concerns), and drive-ability are things that will be improved over time with things like solid state technology, ultra-capacitors and in the interim yes we're going to see far better hybrids than we have been given as options in the past.

Media outlets certainly tooted the "ICEs are dead tomorrow!" horn far too quickly before the technology was so perfect that no caveats remained. Yet the government led climate impact mitigating target years for partial and full electrification of vehicles is a very separate matter from media outlet hype.

I've got far more criticism with premature news hype around the extinction of the steering wheel and human driving controls amidst tech industry claims that automated driving technology was not only going to be ready for prime time just a couple of years ago but was also going to be universally accepted by everyone and wanted by everyone.

And that's a totally separate discussion from drivetrain and transportation energy infrastructure electrification.

It's a long term transition from one energy economy and technology to another. The ICE's that we really love aren't going anywhere for a long time even if they aren't built in new cars past 2035. Hybrid gas-electrics are going to be the next predominant wave for standard offerings over the next ten years or so alongside battery EVs.

In the midst of all that I think the larger charging infrastructure, electrical grid and battery pack and other vehicle specific issues will gradually get closer to being sorted out.

I really, really like the idea of using hydrogen but the more research I have done into it the more I am feeling that it's best for high level funded racing use rather than street use. Further, e-fuels solve every single major issue and challenge that is presented by a combustion hydrogen engine powered vehicle on the street. But that will be a fuel that we'll continue to use in the future in the cars we like right now and in the cool combustion models that we like that will be made for the next 12 years.

I do feel that at current time hydrogen fuel cell stack powered heavy machinery and heavy industrial vehicles (including cargo ships) makes a lot more sense. However maybe even that paradigm will be made obsolete within 10-15 years with next generation battery technology.

This whole thing is a long process and it's going to take time.

For the purposes of people like us on this forum I really want to see purpose built fun to drive vehicles continue to be made which maintain emphasis on driver-centric interiors, driver engagement, and modification friendly special cars both on the affordable and high end of the market.

Currently the writing on the wall seems to point towards conventional lithium-ion battery packs being OK for some normal everyday cars. However the next generation tech is what will likely start making folks like us much happier with electric efforts... so long as the cars they're in are actually made to be fun and not soul-suckingly boring peoplemovers.

Elon. I’ve seen no evidence of all the media names that get thrown at him. It only appears as if they are trying to distract from what he’s done. That one guy has built a company and brand better than others could. It’s pretty impressive. Are some bitter? There’s no doubt! Fisker, Lucid and more are still trying their best, yet not even close. Even larger companies and our own government doesn’t like that he won‘t bend at the knee. A good CEO knows how to reinvest into the company, as Warren Buffett would say. So yes a few salad bars may have been lost in the process, but there’s no denying his success.

I do have a good buddy that, I’ve known for ages, working for him. He loves it. He‘s shown me a few internals emails (screenshots in a text). Mega supportive and receptive to ideas. I’m not sure what else the guy is supposed to do. He has all walks of life working for him. He’s not a comic book hero, nor owes the general public anything, other than taxes - hence the move to Texas. Smart move btw. So yeah, it’s his company. He came to live the American dream. Not a socialist or communist dream. So let‘s not rush out and glue ourselves to any paintings just yet. We’ve got bigger fish to fry than Elon providing us better EV charging stations.

I personally hope he builds a better AI so I can lookup car parts easier . And even that company is racist according to the media. I’ve seen articles showing he employed the brightest and best. But didn’t use race, religion or sexual preference in his hiring decision Ummmmmmm…. okayyyy….

I bet batteries will get even better and I’ll own one of these suckers someday. Until then, keep making them better and more efficient. Charging stations too! Glad those are becoming almost dependable as gas stations.

 

[KahnBB6]

Elon. I’ve seen no evidence of all the media names that get thrown at him. It only appears as if they are trying to distract from what he’s done. That one guy has built a company and brand better than others could. It’s pretty impressive. Are some bitter? There’s no doubt! Fisker, Lucid and more are still trying their best, yet not even close. Even larger companies and our own government doesn’t like that he won‘t bend at the knee. A good CEO knows how to reinvest into the company, as Warren Buffett would say. So yes a few salad bars may have been lost in the process, but there’s no denying his success.

I do have a good buddy that, I’ve known for ages, working for him. He loves it. He‘s shown me a few internals emails (screenshots in a text). Mega supportive and receptive to ideas. I’m not sure what else the guy is supposed to do. He has all walks of life working for him. He’s not a comic book hero, nor owes the general public anything, other than taxes - hence the move to Texas. Smart move btw. So yeah, it’s his company. He came to live the American dream. Not a socialist or communist dream. So let‘s not rush out and glue ourselves to any paintings just yet. We’ve got bigger fish to fry than Elon providing us better EV charging stations.

I personally hope he builds a better AI so I can lookup car parts easier . And even that company is racist according to the media. I’ve seen articles showing he employed the brightest and best. But didn’t use race, religion or sexual preference in his hiring decision Ummmmmmm…. okayyyy….

I bet batteries will get even better and I’ll own one of these suckers someday. Until then, keep making them better and more efficient. Charging stations too! Glad those are becoming almost dependable as gas stations.

Well... I can only speak for myself but I've seen plenty of evidence of his antics for years and years now that have led me to my extreme disgust and disinterest in him. It's not some media concocted distraction from achievements-- it's just him doing what he does and shooting his mouth off as he wants to.

Hell, one of his own daughters wants nothing to do with him.

If you're not also seeing what I've been seeing of his disgusting behavior in general for years now then we'll just have to agree to disagree about that. Personally I find him to be an annoyingly colossal POS and given that I have little to no interest in him.

To note: He didn't build Telsa. Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning founded it and Musk came in with investment and eventually ousted both of them. The Model S, X, Y and Model 3 were designed by Franz von Holzhausen... but he's gone from the company now. The serious design troubles Musk is now having with his ill-advised Cybertruck design (which many of his engineering team tried to dissuade him from in favor of an alternative design that could actually make production) is giving him and the company a lot of trouble. The entire thing has to be redesigned now for issues as stupid as using a flat windshield.

Similarly he co-founded SpaceX with three other main people. A LOT of other people's contributions make that company what is on a far greater scale than Musk's.

Fisker, Lucid, Faraday Future and also Polestar are off doing their own things at the price points they want to sell at but they really aren't mainstream brands. They're luxury brands. They also don't seem to have the same production and fit and finish difficulties that Tesla Motors does.

Then there's his purchase and handling of Twitter which... isn't going very well for him or the company or its shareholders. I killed my account there a couple of months after he took over and every time I hear news about Twitter's state of affairs I feel no regrets about leaving it in the dust for other social media. It used to be quite a good social network service-- sad loss. I don't see it lasting for more than a couple more years at the rate its going.

For all these reasons and more I just don't find him to be a very effective leader or visionary. And outside of that I also don't have a very high opinion of him as a person in general.

Also I don't know where socialism or communism even factor into this discussion and subject matter, or paintings. We're just talking about a guy who does whatever it is he does with his companies and himself

I'm happy to leave the subject of Elon Musk behind and stay focused on your thread topic which I feel is of good benefit to us all here to better understand developments and changes with this electrification transition.



As for EV charging infrastructure I said a few posts back that I do feel that currently Tesla Motors has the most reliable and extensive charging network that has the most reliable track record. And the other big industry players seem to agree. That's just how it goes when someone's approach to an industry standard wins out. For this it goes to Tesla.

But mostly for their charge plug and cable standard. They eventually won't be the only charging network player in the field with a solid track record.

Given Musk's (last time I'll mention him here but he's relevant to what you brought up about AI and parts) stance on generally making it very hard for owners of his cars to buy parts themselves (look up how well Rich Benoit of Rich Rebuilds has documented this) with a very Apple-like approach to not allowing end customer parts purchasing for the longest time I don't think he's going to apply any of his AI company efforts to making parts database searches any easier.

Batteries will indeed become much better in coming years. I don't see that innovation coming first from Tesla though. Their supercharger networks are, as I have personally observed, the most reliable re-"fueling" infrastructure so far *for electric cars*. But they are not quite yet as ubiquitous and convenient as gas stations are.

But on an industry wide scale as the charging infrastructures are built out and as battery cell technology improves the current balance in the scales between gas refueling and electric recharging will change.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Well... I can only speak for myself but I've seen plenty of evidence of his antics for years and years now that have led me to my extreme disgust and disinterest in him. It's not some media concocted distraction from achievements-- it's just him doing what he does and shooting his mouth off as he wants to.

Hell, one of his own daughters wants nothing to do with him.

If you're not also seeing what I've been seeing of his disgusting behavior in general for years now then we'll just have to agree to disagree about that. Personally I find him to be an annoyingly colossal POS and given that I have little to no interest in him.

To note: He didn't build Telsa. Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning founded it and Musk came in with investment and eventually ousted both of them. The Model S, X, Y and Model 3 were designed by Franz von Holzhausen... but he's gone from the company now. The serious design troubles Musk is now having with his ill-advised Cybertruck design (which many of his engineering team tried to dissuade him from in favor of an alternative design that could actually make production) is giving him and the company a lot of trouble. The entire thing has to be redesigned now for issues as stupid as using a flat windshield.

Similarly he co-founded SpaceX with three other main people. A LOT of other people's contributions make that company what is on a far greater scale than Musk's.

Fisker, Lucid, Faraday Future and also Polestar are off doing their own things at the price points they want to sell at but they really aren't mainstream brands. They're luxury brands. They also don't seem to have the same production and fit and finish difficulties that Tesla Motors does.

Then there's his purchase and handling of Twitter which... isn't going very well for him or the company or its shareholders. I killed my account there a couple of months after he took over and every time I hear news about Twitter's state of affairs I feel no regrets about leaving it in the dust for other social media. It used to be quite a good social network service-- sad loss. I don't see it lasting for more than a couple more years at the rate its going.

For all these reasons and more I just don't find him to be a very effective leader or visionary. And outside of that I also don't have a very high opinion of him as a person in general.

Also I don't know where socialism or communism even factor into this discussion and subject matter, or paintings. We're just talking about a guy who does whatever it is he does with his companies and himself

I'm happy to leave the subject of Elon Musk behind and stay focused on your thread topic which I feel is of good benefit to us all here to better understand developments and changes with this electrification transition.



As for EV charging infrastructure I said a few posts back that I do feel that currently Tesla Motors has the most reliable and extensive charging network that has the most reliable track record. And the other big industry players seem to agree. That's just how it goes when someone's approach to an industry standard wins out. For this it goes to Tesla.

But mostly for their charge plug and cable standard. They eventually won't be the only charging network player in the field with a solid track record.

Given Musk's (last time I'll mention him here but he's relevant to what you brought up about AI and parts) stance on generally making it very hard for owners of his cars to buy parts themselves (look up how well Rich Benoit of Rich Rebuilds has documented this) with a very Apple-like approach to not allowing end customer parts purchasing for the longest time I don't think he's going to apply any of his AI company efforts to making parts database searches any easier.

Batteries will indeed become much better in coming years. I don't see that innovation coming first from Tesla though. Their supercharger networks are, as I have personally observed, the most reliable re-"fueling" infrastructure so far *for electric cars*. But they are not quite yet as ubiquitous and convenient as gas stations are.

But on an industry wide scale as the charging infrastructures are built out and as battery cell technology improves the current balance in the scales between gas refueling and electric recharging will change.

My own daughter doesn’t like me at times either. Doesn’t make me xenophobic or racist. Those words get thrown around like grains of salt. Disgust and ill feelings toward someone doesn’t make them any of those things. I love that he bought twitter and allowed free speech again. Especially medical journals that were getting cut for no reason at all. Only because they didn’t fit the narrative for big pharma. It was wrong on so many levels. Bring on all sides of the argument and let me decide. I don’t want big brother, government or anyone doing that for me. So there’s my beef.

Appreciate your more honest answer this go round. We’re all entitled to our opinions 4sho. Thank gawd. The wife still wants a Tesla. Uggggghhhhhhh…… I’d love for this tech to come along a bit more. I’m not sold just yet.

I did get to ride in a new Mustang EV. Uber to get my car from a fancy alignment. It was soooooo cool This guy believed it was practically free to drive. I didn’t say a word (he didn’t call anyone a racist - lol). I was truly happy for him. And it was really nice - from the backseat at least.

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