Toyota Presents World Debut of the New 2022 GR 86

A70TTR

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Yep, it sounds like a lack of cohesion, but who knows. It would be awesome to get a turbo 86/BRZ or even a higher powered NA one.

I can confirm 100% that Tada hasn't been working on it and he's set to retire after finishing the Supra project (or so he said beginning of last year).
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KahnBB6

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Yep, it sounds like a lack of cohesion, but who knows. It would be awesome to get a turbo 86/BRZ or even a higher powered NA one.

I can confirm 100% that Tada hasn't been working on it and he's set to retire after finishing the Supra project (or so he said beginning of last year).
Agreed. A 2nd gen RWD 86/BRZ in any form would be awesome. Further, I hope that a very affordable, well designed RWD 2+2 manual car continues to be available from Toyota in one form or another for as long as possible (just as with the Supra in its current form).

So despite Tada-san having expressed his own interest in a future MR2 and GT-Four he is planning to step back and allow other engineer(s) handle future sports models? What about Masayuki Kai and Moto-san? Will they still be involved in future GR and sports Toyota projects?
 

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Moto is very close to Tada-san due to their collaboration on the 86, and I don't think Tada will step away from Gazoo Racing immediately. I think he mentioned staying on in an advisor role and so forth, which means Moto should be along for the ride, but it won't quite be the same as 2007-2018.
 

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^^ Sounds like no matter what, the GT86 and A90 will be a unique era in Toyota's history. I hope Tada-san does stay on as an advisor... and I hope that his example has inspired other engineers on their way up in Toyota to reach high to create fun driver cars as he has.

If he's not going to directly work on any of the other "brother" sportscars going forward or any other limited special performance trims of existing models then I hope he does/has mentored people along the way. I am sure he has honestly... market forces and top brass decisions above aside that is how it works in every industry.

News from late yesterday. It may be a confirmation of what we've already heard but it does sound like both Subaru and Toyota referred directly to the BRZ *and* GT86 continuing to gen2:

https://leftlanenews.com/toyota/toyota-subaru-confirm-next-gen-gtbrz-in-the-works/
 

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yeah, that's just parroting the same stuff from the original article.

Heres the thing though, Best Car in Japan is generally very accurate and they get their info from insiders at home base, so while these denials do hold weight so does the former IMO.
 

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https://www.goauto.com.au/future-mo...ota-86-confirmed-for-oz/2019-02-05/77401.html

New-generation Toyota 86 confirmed for Oz
Future models - Toyota - 86 New-generation Toyota 86 confirmed for Oz Toyota Australia confirms Supra to sell alongside 86 sportscar – not replace it

TOYOTA has confirmed that a second generation of the 86 sportscar will be produced, and made available in Australia, rebutting overseas reports that the rear-wheel-drive coupe would be axed to clear the path for the four-cylinder version of the reborn Supra.

Speaking exclusively to GoAuto, Toyota Australia public affairs manager Brodie Bott poured cold water on claims that the 86 would be axed in favour of the base Supra variant.

“When those reports blew up, we had a few chats internally and I can tell you right now, the car (second-generation 86) is coming,” he said.

“I don’t know where these reports have come from, but at this stage we are certainly not looking to discontinue it, it’s a pretty important car for us and it will be the little brother to the Supra.”

When asked directly if there will be a successor to the current 86, Mr Bott confirmed that “there will be, we’ve seen it, it is coming”.

While the Supra was developed in partnership with BMW and is heavily related to the new Z4, the 86 was part of a joint-venture program with Subaru, which offers the BRZ.

The current 86 is powered by a Subaru-sourced 152kW/212Nm 2.0-litre four-cylinder naturally aspirated boxer engine, while the new Supra will be available with a 145kW/320Nm 2.0-litre turbo-petrol unit in base form overseas.

A higher-output 190kW/400Nm tune has also been developed for the Supra’s four-cylinder engine.

Overseas reports have claimed that the similarities in power output will see the 86 discontinued to give the entry-level Supra free air as Toyota’s most affordable rear-drive coupe.

While Mr Bott would not definitively rule out the possibility of the four-cylinder Supra arriving in Australian showrooms, he said there were currently no plans for either version of the force-fed four-pot to be sold here.

That could change down the track, but in the short-term Toyota Australia will provide plenty of breathing space between the current 86 – which tops out at $38,940 plus on-road costs for the GTS automatic – and the new Supra, which at launch will be offered solely with a 250kW/500Nm 3.0-litre turbocharged six-cylinder engine.

Local pricing and specification are still to be announced, but a circa-$75,000 sticker price is anticipated.

Little is currently known about Toyota’s 86 successor, including whether the new sportscar will be co-developed and built with Subaru.

Early overseas reports are claiming the new-generation 86 could be powered by a 2.4-litre engine, but whether the powerplant remains naturally aspirated or features forced induction is unclear.

Also unclear is when the new 86 is expected to surface. The first generation went on sale in 2012, indicating that its successor should materialise in the next few years.

Toyota gave every indication just over a year ago that it remained committed to the 86, using the 2017 Tokyo motor show to unveil the GR HV Sports concept – code for Gazoo Racing Hybrid Vehicle – that saw the sportscar reskinned and threw a racing-derived hybrid powertrain into the mix, complete with high-mounted battery pack positioned behind the front seats for optimum weight distribution and, as a result, improved handling characteristics.

Longer, wider and shorter than the 86 production car, the concept’s design was described by Toyota at the time as reminiscent of Gazoo Racing’s TS050 Hybrid racecar that was competing in the World Endurance Championship.

As well as the powertrain, headline features on the GR HV included a targa-style roof – drawing inspiration from the previous Supra and the 1960s-era Toyota Sports 800 – as well as LED headlights, bonnet vents and centrally mounted exhaust pipe.

It also had a novel ignition switch on top of the gear lever for the automatic transmission, and a separate button on the lever to engage a unique manual shift mode that allowed the driver to row through the six-speed gearbox using a H-pattern gate.
 

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If they ditch the Torsen LSD (Toyota owns the company that produces it and all patents so it's a no-brainer to include one) or manual it's not going to win people over the way the current one did.

Besides, both Bosch and GM have in the last couple of years filed patents for methods to semi-automate some functions of traditional three-pedal manuals (Bosch's relates just to auto-de-clutching and reengaging and GM's seems to do more) in situations where that might be needed while still allowing the driver to use the three-pedal manual interface.

And we know it's possible to make manual hybrids especially as Honda has proven since 1998 or so. The CR-Z 6-speed manual wasn't a great car by any stretch of the imagination but it did prove that a traditional manual works in a performance hybrid configuration.

A brake-assist torque vectoring diff in an 86 would be awful. An electronic torque vectoring diff with an LSD would be too expensive for a car in the 86's price bracket. The Torsen should be the easiest way to give the customer reliable limited slip function. Plus... mechanical is a selling point.

However I will not be surprised if the 86 becomes a hybrid in the second generation. Maybe they can do another pure gas engine for gen 2 but maybe not for another 8-10 year full production run. Maybe only for half that number of model years before a hybrid just becomes necessary.

But I can see a hybrid-electric over a turbo being likely for this reason. I'd love to see a little turbo personally but given the price bracket and need to build for upcoming tighter emissions and fuel economy standards alike it might be necessary. As a bonus they'd also gain a very easy way into torque boost with an electric motor.

I also was eyeing the HV Sports Concept with this speculation in mind.

But even if they want to pursue the odd maybe-sort-of-a-manual transmission that the HV concept had it still remains possible to continue to offer a proper manual trans even with a hybrid electric powerplant. Cost might be the only deciding factor since it still can't be all that more expensive than it is now.
 

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If they ditch the Torsen LSD (Toyota owns the company that produces it and all patents so it's a no-brainer to include one) or manual it's not going to win people over the way the current one did.

Besides, both Bosch and GM have in the last couple of years filed patents for methods to semi-automate some functions of traditional three-pedal manuals (Bosch's relates just to auto-de-clutching and reengaging and GM's seems to do more) in situations where that might be needed while still allowing the driver to use the three-pedal manual interface.

And we know it's possible to make manual hybrids especially as Honda has proven since 1998 or so. The CR-Z 6-speed manual wasn't a great car by any stretch of the imagination but it did prove that a traditional manual works in a performance hybrid configuration.

A brake-assist torque vectoring diff in an 86 would be awful. An electronic torque vectoring diff with an LSD would be too expensive for a car in the 86's price bracket. The Torsen should be the easiest way to give the customer reliable limited slip function. Plus... mechanical is a selling point.

However I will not be surprised if the 86 becomes a hybrid in the second generation. Maybe they can do another pure gas engine for gen 2 but maybe not for another 8-10 year full production run. Maybe only for half that number of model years before a hybrid just becomes necessary.

But I can see a hybrid-electric over a turbo being likely for this reason. I'd love to see a little turbo personally but given the price bracket and need to build for upcoming tighter emissions and fuel economy standards alike it might be necessary. As a bonus they'd also gain a very easy way into torque boost with an electric motor.

I also was eyeing the HV Sports Concept with this speculation in mind.

But even if they want to pursue the odd maybe-sort-of-a-manual transmission that the HV concept had it still remains possible to continue to offer a proper manual trans even with a hybrid electric powerplant. Cost might be the only deciding factor since it still can't be all that more expensive than it is now.
I think that Toyota will make it a statement that the Supra IS their last pure petrol car
 

KahnBB6

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I think that Toyota will make it a statement that the Supra IS their last pure petrol car
I think you're right. Tada-san did allude to this regarding the Supra A90 and even it technically can accommodate a hybrid system if they eventually need it to during the model run (I think this has something to do with the design of the ZF 8HP transmission allowing room for a pancake electric motor?).
 

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I think you're right. Tada-san did allude to this regarding the Supra A90 and even it technically can accommodate a hybrid system if they eventually need it to during the model run (I think this has something to do with the design of the ZF 8HP transmission allowing room for a pancake electric motor?).
They could slap on some Electric motors on the 86 to appease the Moar power folk
 

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my guess is that the price will go slightly up , the engine will be something downsized (maybe a 3 cylinder turbo) with some electric assistance(new suzuki swifts have some kind of mild hybrid setup). I just hope that it will stay 2+2 and generally won't change much outside of the engine department.
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