Designing FT-1 inspired wing- Looking to see if there is demand as well as suggestions for improvement

[razorlab]

Genuinely curious as to why? Is this true or just what people assume? Again. Not trying to argue. Just wondering

It is true and has happened. There is no reinforcement in that area.

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[i3igpete]

I will leave the owners with crushed hatches to post pictures if they desire to

So with the diameter of the bolt that attaches the deck mount to the riser, it would have been impossible to make the mounts adjustable.

I just made 3 separate risers that give the wing 7, 8.5 and 10deg of AoA.

Any reason why you dont want to use diagonal drillings like the motorsport guys?

 

[TheMaker]

I will leave the owners with crushed hatches to post pictures if they desire to



Any reason why you dont want to use diagonal drillings like the motorsport guys?

Not opposed to it. After reading up
On it, it seems like a very free upgrade .
Keep the suggestions coming! I want to try provide the best possible wing

 

[TheMaker]

Internal structure support reinforced by 8mm aluminum or cf tubes (cf most likely. spans the entire wing with overlap to spread forces and ensure minimal flex.


Endplate design, stayed as true to FT-1 as I could. Took some liberties with the top portion to give it more complete look but also channel the air over the wing as well.

Just lower endplates to stay traditional. I like these better

 

[rwense]

Just read through the thread, love the design so far! I have a few questions however:
1. Is there a defined customer base you are trying to target with this? I.e. is it more for the track crowd, the street/show crowd, etc?
2. I saw you mentioned printing the chord and the mounts. for testing i dont see a problem with that, although for production/actual use I think the mounts should be CNC'd. the chord can probably be printed along with structural support and maybe an outside layer of CF.
3. What software are you using? Looks like blender to me? If so, you'll be hard pressed to find a manufacturer that will be willing to work with .STL files (trust me, ive been through that process lol).
4. Is there any internal plates/load spreading plates on the underside of the hatch similar to what you would see on other wings? If not, I would highly recommend adding those.

I appreciate you being open to input and feedback

 

[TheMaker]

Just read through the thread, love the design so far! I have a few questions however:
1. Is there a defined customer base you are trying to target with this? I.e. is it more for the track crowd, the street/show crowd, etc?
2. I saw you mentioned printing the chord and the mounts. for testing i dont see a problem with that, although for production/actual use I think the mounts should be CNC'd. the chord can probably be printed along with structural support and maybe an outside layer of CF.
3. What software are you using? Looks like blender to me? If so, you'll be hard pressed to find a manufacturer that will be willing to work with .STL files (trust me, ive been through that process lol).
4. Is there any internal plates/load spreading plates on the underside of the hatch similar to what you would see on other wings? If not, I would highly recommend adding those.

I appreciate you being open to input and feedback

1. Customer base: any supra owner that wants this look really… not trying to exclude any potential buyers but with that in mind it needs to check off both boxes. Motorsport and aesthetics. I want feedback from supra owners because thats who im doing this for. Maybe one say ill be one.
2. The mounts that ill be making will be printed out of a nylon carbon filament, one of the strongest commercially available products. They should be able withstand the forces especially since they’ll be nearly solid. CNC machining is something i might offer if 1) theres big enough demand and i can justify the added cost 2) if i can find a partner or local shop that wants to take on the work. Or I out source over seas… literally every aftermarket part and wheels( Ok im generalizing but a vast majority) are made overseas, this may be an option… once again id need to check numbers and get a confirmed group buy going on. But yes i agree it would be beneficial to cnc them.
3. I use plasticity. I find it incredibly intuitive and making and manipulating shapes is easy and it offers the same precision i had back when i used Fusion. Personally, i dislike blender, its a clusterf@ck to learn and the interface makes my mind melt. Maybe everyone else sees something I dont, but ive never been able to wrap my head around Blender. Plasticity offers STEP file exports which is best for potential cnc shops to use
4. I have thought about this and would like to offer it as it would be easily doable but i dont have a scan of the trunk underside. At the moment thats not being offered but I do have a good 3d scanner, but no supra… yes you read that correctly… i do not actually own a supra. So i need to find someone in Toronto who can let me use their car for additional scans and test fittings
5. I appreciate your contribution to this thread

 

[TheMaker]

Endplate update.... Looks sleeker

 

[rwense]

1. Customer base: any supra owner that wants this look really… not trying to exclude any potential buyers but with that in mind it needs to check off both boxes. Motorsport and aesthetics. I want feedback from supra owners because thats who im doing this for. Maybe one say ill be one.
2. The mounts that ill be making will be printed out of a nylon carbon filament, one of the strongest commercially available products. They should be able withstand the forces especially since they’ll be nearly solid. CNC machining is something i might offer if 1) theres big enough demand and i can justify the added cost 2) if i can find a partner or local shop that wants to take on the work. Or I out source over seas… literally every aftermarket part and wheels( Ok im generalizing but a vast majority) are made overseas, this may be an option… once again id need to check numbers and get a confirmed group buy going on. But yes i agree it would be beneficial to cnc them.
3. I use plasticity. I find it incredibly intuitive and making and manipulating shapes is easy and it offers the same precision i had back when i used Fusion. Personally, i dislike blender, its a clusterf@ck to learn and the interface makes my mind melt. Maybe everyone else sees something I dont, but ive never been able to wrap my head around Blender. Plasticity offers STEP file exports which is best for potential cnc shops to use
4. I have thought about this and would like to offer it as it would be easily doable but i dont have a scan of the trunk underside. At the moment thats not being offered but I do have a good 3d scanner, but no supra… yes you read that correctly… i do not actually own a supra. So i need to find someone in Toronto who can let me use their car for additional scans and test fittings
5. I appreciate your contribution to this thread

1. Gotcha, makes sense. Just make sure you market it correctly (which it looks like you are). I.e. dont claim DF numbers or the track crowd will call you out ASAP lol.

2. While i would agree that under a static compressive load, printed mounts would probably be fine (hell, my jackstand adapters are solid printed PETG lol). Thst being said the loads are more complicated and the failure mode cod be devastating for the driver and anyone behind him/her. From a safety perspective and from a legal perspective, I would err on the side of caution and go the CNC route. Looking st your design, I dont think it would actually be as expensive as you think. I can give some more feedback if you'd like. Additionally, if this is something you're actually serious doing and can get buy in/a list of buyers, I would be willing to connect you to my contact I went through for the diff braces. The entire process with them was incredibly well done and comparatively cheap. They are overseas just an FYI, i don't know if its important for you to produce them domestically or not but just wanted to make that known.

3. Oh wow a plasticity user! Ive been following that software off and on for a while but never actually made the jump to try it. I started with blender, which I actually got pretty proficient in and developed the fender vents among other things with it. But since then ive been using Fusion. Its good but god help you if you work woth surfaces or need to design something more organic lol. Maybe ill have to grab a license ive actually yet to hear an end user's experience lol.

4. Id be willing to provide a scan free of charge if it helps. I may already have the scan come to think of it.

5. No problem, i appreciate you taking the time to try and make something cool

 

[TheMaker]

1. Gotcha, makes sense. Just make sure you market it correctly (which it looks like you are). I.e. dont claim DF numbers or the track crowd will call you out ASAP lol.

2. While i would agree that under a static compressive load, printed mounts would probably be fine (hell, my jackstand adapters are solid printed PETG lol). Thst being said the loads are more complicated and the failure mode cod be devastating for the driver and anyone behind him/her. From a safety perspective and from a legal perspective, I would err on the side of caution and go the CNC route. Looking st your design, I dont think it would actually be as expensive as you think. I can give some more feedback if you'd like. Additionally, if this is something you're actually serious doing and can get buy in/a list of buyers, I would be willing to connect you to my contact I went through for the diff braces. The entire process with them was incredibly well done and comparatively cheap. They are overseas just an FYI, i don't know if its important for you to produce them domestically or not but just wanted to make that known.

3. Oh wow a plasticity user! Ive been following that software off and on for a while but never actually made the jump to try it. I started with blender, which I actually got pretty proficient in and developed the fender vents among other things with it. But since then ive been using Fusion. Its good but god help you if you work woth surfaces or need to design something more organic lol. Maybe ill have to grab a license ive actually yet to hear an end user's experience lol.

4. Id be willing to provide a scan free of charge if it helps. I may already have the scan come to think of it.

5. No problem, i appreciate you taking the time to try and make something cool

Once the design is more or less finalized, ill probably shop around for a reputable engineering firm to run some simulation on it. Its a good selling feature imo to know exactly what you're getting. This way the track guys know how it stacks up against more track oriented options (but don't want the track appearance all the time) and the street guys at least know they didn't waste their money on a wing with no effort put behind the design. Ideally Id also like to offer something unique that doesn't just follow conventional and current aftermarket styling (with DF numbers) and hopefully if the market is there, I can offer it at an attractive point.

This is subjective and some may disagree, but i felt like the aftermarket for this car didn’t really do its design justice. The actual production car, as much as i like it, strayed a bit too far off the concept… i wanted to give it some of the styling back.


To go the CNC would be a preferred choice, no argument there. I’ll contact you closer to the time when ill be ready for that. I'm designing this in my spare time so progress isn't always as fast as id like .

Ill definitely take you up on the offer for the 3d scan of the under trunk… that'll speed up the process for sure so i can make the load spreader and finalize the bolt location. Once that's done, i think test fitting, even if its not bolted, would give a nice visual of how it sits irl.

The risers i can fit on my build plate to make a tester but they were intended to be 8mm thick cf. 5mm should be fine too but i over engineer anyway.

I'm not opposed to using overseas manufacturing, imho, they’re really good. So that's an option.

I gravitate towards Plasticity because of organic shapes and surfaces modelling but was surprised at how fluid the work flow is. Fusion felt choppy by comparison and plasticity just kept getting better and better with each update. Its leaps ahead of where it was when i started using it.

 

[TheMaker]

Updated trunk mounts.

If I go the CNC route, which seems to be most likely, I can go lower profile, giving a sleeker more oem look. I can thread directly into the body of the mount and use a middle "diagonal drilled" bolt to give it more shear resistance and stability. The tops I may leave like this, or at least re style but so far i think they're pretty much there.

Any suggestions or questions on design? aesthetic or structural?

 

[rwense]

Updated trunk mounts.

If I go the CNC route, which seems to be most likely, I can go lower profile, giving a sleeker more oem look. I can thread directly into the body of the mount and use a middle "diagonal drilled" bolt to give it more shear resistance and stability. The tops I may leave like this, or at least re style but so far i think they're pretty much there.

Any suggestions or questions on design? aesthetic or structural?

Seems like a good idea regarding the shear strength! Something to maybe consider is how close inward the mount is to the OEM ducktail. Some people may want to run both a ducktail and the wing, could be a turn off if they're incompatible. Otherwise, good progress!

 

[TheMaker]

Seems like a good idea regarding the shear strength! Something to maybe consider is how close inward the mount is to the OEM ducktail. Some people may want to run both a ducktail and the wing, could be a turn off if they're incompatible. Otherwise, good progress!

I see what you mean about the ducktail… i wanted to try retain the ft-1’s mounting position as much as possible. Unfortunately the oem trunk is so weak towards the middle otherwise I probably would have gone a bit closer in. I might try further reduce the bulk on the mount.

 

[rwense]

I see what you mean about the ducktail… i wanted to try retain the ft-1’s mounting position as much as possible. Unfortunately the oem trunk is so weak towards the middle otherwise I probably would have gone a bit closer in. I might try further reduce the bulk on the mount.

Oh yeah I just meant maybe move the mounts a cm outward or so. Doesn't have to be much cause you're already pretty dang close to making it work. Worst case scenario, people can always shave the tips of the ducktail

 

[TheMaker]

Oh yeah I just meant maybe move the mounts a cm outward or so. Doesn't have to be much cause you're already pretty dang close to making it work. Worst case scenario, people can always shave the tips of the ducktail

10mm should be doable… might need to rework the tops in order to do that but i was planning on doing that anyway. Im happy with the way they look but i can reduce bulk on those as well since its cnc focused now.

 

[rwense]

10mm should be doable… might need to rework the tops in order to do that but i was planning on doing that anyway. Im happy with the way they look but i can reduce bulk on those as well since its cnc focused now.

Gotcha! You can always print a few mockups to see how they fit.

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