Performance upgrades that wont void the Warranty

[Dannyvandelft]

My SA said don’t put one in (I did anyway), saying that Toyota’s official line is that the CAI causes damage with too much air causing the air fuel ratio to be too lean. Of course, this makes no sense. My SA also said “any performance mod” will be blamed for whatever might go wrong down the line.

It makes perfect sense. CAI pushes more air into the engine, if the fueling can't keep up, there will be too much oxygen particles per fuel particles and that'll lean out the car.
My STI couldn't accept an intake without tuning for it. If you had a downpipe too, you needed to upgrade injectors and fuel pump as well because the stock fueling system would not be enough.
Intakes are very important now. That's why they hardly make power, and often lose power, with aftermarket parts. Because they're so highly designed by the manufacturer.

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[Dannyvandelft]

Um.. disagree. I'm entitled to the warranty based on the purchase. If one wants to take away my warranty entitlement then they have to prove that my mod is the cause of the issue. Not the other way around.

Wrong. They'll just say you modded your car outside their specifications, we won't warranty it. Tough shit.

 

[Tsar]

Youre going to force them to engine swap the car against their will after they state CAI modify AF ratios?

I can't force anyone to do anything. I can however demand proof as they are trying to take away my paid for entitlement. You can also dispute any kind of evidence they put forth, especially if it comes to court. For every expert there's another expert that will say otherwise. If AF ratios are modified, then the questions becomes how much and what's safe and what's not. Just because something is not in stock calibration doesn't necessarily mean "OMG armageddon". At least, that would be my argument til I find a better one.

I can also repair on my own and then attempt to recover from them. I would not want to do it that way though.

 

[Tsar]

Wrong. They'll just say you modded your car outside their specifications, we won't warranty it. Tough shit.

And that's why we have so many lawyers in America lol

 

[Dannyvandelft]

I can't force anyone to do anything. I can however demand proof as they are trying to take away my paid for entitlement. You can also dispute any kind of evidence they put forth, especially if it comes to court. For every expert there's another expert that will say otherwise. If AF ratios are modified, then the questions becomes how much and what's safe and what's not. Just because something is not in stock calibration doesn't necessarily mean "OMG armageddon". At least, that would be my argument til I find a better one.

I can also repair on my own and then attempt to recover from them. I would not want to do it that way though.

Their proof is in your engine bay. All they have to do is point at your modifications. Then they can pull the data from your ECU and say it's outside their parameters. Then you can fight it, which will cost even more than the repair, and then after all that, you can still pay for it yourself to be fixed.

 

[Tsar]

Last sentence:

 

[Dannyvandelft]

And that's why we have so many lawyers in America lol

And how many try to get modded cars warrantied? They'll laugh at you as they usher you out the door.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Last sentence:

Yup. Now you go spend $50k on a lawyer, and make them prove it
And like I said, that connection is easily made. All they need is to pull the MAF data from your ECU. Done. Proven.

 

[Tsar]

1. Why would necessarily it be 50k? That's not how lawyer fees work. Also, the Act would force THEM [the manufacturer] to pay for the legal fees, given that I prevail on the matter.
2. I could conceivably argue it myself but yea, I'd likely get a lawyer that specializes in it. I have no problem arguing against other lawyers though. Most of the time it's nice to skip the line and get straight to the legal department

 

[justbake]

I can't force anyone to do anything. I can however demand proof as they are trying to take away my paid for entitlement. You can also dispute any kind of evidence they put forth, especially if it comes to court. For every expert there's another expert that will say otherwise. If AF ratios are modified, then the questions becomes how much and what's safe and what's not. Just because something is not in stock calibration doesn't necessarily mean "OMG armageddon". At least, that would be my argument til I find a better one.

I can also repair on my own and then attempt to recover from them. I would not want to do it that way though.

Last sentence:

You still have to argue that in the court of law though

 

[Dannyvandelft]

1. Why would necessarily it be 50k? That's not how lawyer fees work. Also, the Act would force THEM [the manufacturer] to pay for the legal fees, given that I prevail on the matter.
2. I could conceivably argue it myself but yea, I'd likely get a lawyer that specializes in it. I have no problem arguing against other lawyers though. Most of the time it's nice to skip the line and get straight to the legal department

You won't prevail. You modded the car in such a way that the engine had to work outside its safe parameters set by the manufacturer. Your mod caused it to do so. Case closed.

 

[Tsar]

You still have to argue that in the court of law though

Possibly. Less than 2% of litigation goes to court though and you can settle right til the last minute. But yea, that would be the best/worst case scenario - depending on which side you think you are on. It could also get expensive but some people like to prove a point regardless (not saying that's me but i've seen um.. wealthy people.. go to trial over trivial shit to only prove a point).

 

[Tsar]

You won't prevail. You modded the car in such a way that the engine had to work outside its safe parameters set by the manufacturer. Your mod caused it to do so. Case closed.

lol if that's how litigation worked it would be so great

 

[justbake]

Possibly. Less than 2% of litigation goes to court though and you can settle right til the last minute. But yea, that would be the best/worst case scenario - depending on which side you think you are on. It could also get expensive but some people like to prove a point regardless (not saying that's me but i've seen um.. wealthy people.. go to trial over trivial shit to only prove a point).

This is exactly why they have the power to deny the claim. A simple CAI on a map sensor car won’t blow an engine, but you have to make that argument through months of litigation against a Toyota lawyer.

 

[Tsar]

No dispute that they have the upper hand because of resources and yea, I mean, any litigation could take a long time - no denying that. But it's not necessarily as cut and dry - it will all depends on the facts and how much time, money and principle you'd want to invest.

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