2025: DI vs PI

[Habu]

Lots of reasons:

1. It’s a stock location full frame dual ceramic ball bearing turbo. Whereas the pure 800 is a journal bearing hybrid
2. It comes with the charge pipe and intake.
3. Service is epic, and the owner is super responsive
4. It has a T51R mod so turbo sounds much louder

5. It has a much higher ceiling than the pure 800 and is capable of low 4s 60-130. ( not that it matters if you don’t build the trans)
6. It’s $3500

I’ve had mine for 6000 hard miles with no issues. However, if budget is important, you can definitely find a cheaper used pure 800.

just saw that you mentioned CTS. If you use that turbo it take different fuel, seemingly USD only and it burns it FAST.

you can read through the forums for more details on that one

Sounds amazing!

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[tenkyouken]

DAW is also a solid option, specifically the 6769.

You can use standard aftermarket intake and charge pipe with both iirc

There's no way to buy without a charge pipe/intake?

 

[AJRMKV]

There's no way to buy without a charge pipe/intake?

maybe, you’d have to ask them. They’re very responsive usually. Especially on instagram

 

[AJRMKV]

I agree pretty much with @AJRMKV, although his DI prices listed are a bit inflated, and his PI prices are a bit understated.

However, you really need to figure out what your goals are because that is another vector in the decision making here.

Don't want to plunk down $6,000+ to build your transmission? DI would probably be the best route. You can get right up to maxing out the transmission with upgrading just the HPFP and Injectors and that costs right around $3300.

To really utilize PI for 700+ you need to build the transmission.

It's a slippery slope.

My DI cost was $3800 total for:

FX400X HPFP - Nostrums new injectors + Precision raceworks stage 2.5 lpfp

 

[rottmore]

Is there a reason to go remnant omega versus something like a pure 800 or a CTS?

Skip the hybrids and get a Borgwarner or Garrett. The engineering and RnD is way beyond the aftermarket by a significant factor.

 

[razorlab]

My DI cost was $3800 total for:

FX400X HPFP - Nostrums new injectors + Precision raceworks stage 2.5 lpfp

Yes. However you can easily max the OEM trans with Dorch HPFP + S58 injectors.

 

[kern417]

It depends on oil viscosity.

This is honestly a big impact on DI upgrades being successful.

The biggest issue I see with B58TU HPFP upgrades is that the HPFP spring is very stiff. This pushes on the exhaust cam and adds extra resistance that VANOS has to overcome to maintain desired cam timing.

In a lot of cases, cam timing will walk and vanos will struggle to maintain targets. Thicker oil can help, but doesn't always completely eliminate the issue.

That's why my opinion is PI is better on Gen 2 B58s shooting for big power.

Also, at a certain point you'll still need a LPFP upgrade. This is still best controlled by Reflex, so not saving money there. Also you'll want an upgraded intake manifold for higher boost levels. So, again, still spending that money. Then you're only really saving a couple hundred bucks for the injectors compared to just starting with PI anyway.

 

[AJRMKV]

Skip the hybrids and get a Borgwarner or Garrett. The engineering and RnD is way beyond the aftermarket by a significant factor.

People are mentioning precision less and less these days

This is honestly a big impact on DI upgrades being successful.

The biggest issue I see with B58TU HPFP upgrades is that the HPFP spring is very stiff. This pushes on the exhaust cam and adds extra resistance that VANOS has to overcome to maintain desired cam timing.

In a lot of cases, cam timing will walk and vanos will struggle to maintain targets. Thicker oil can help, but doesn't always completely eliminate the issue.

That's why my opinion is PI is better on Gen 2 B58s shooting for big power.

Also, at a certain point you'll still need a LPFP upgrade. This is still best controlled by Reflex, so not saving money there. Also you'll want an upgraded intake manifold for higher boost levels. So, again, still spending that money. Then you're only really saving a couple hundred bucks for the injectors compared to just starting with PI anyway.

I was joking, but now that you say that, I did have cam walk issues with Fx400X HPFP and S58 injectors at 28psi in 5th gear that would push the car into limp mode. Oil at the time was 0w30.

It was solved with 5W40 oil and a revision by David shoup. Dorch had mentioned that they have a different spring than spool to avoid this issue, but at the end of the day all these pumps are from the same manufacturer and are the same model.

This season’s changes include an upgrade to Nostrums latest injectors, PR stage 2.5 lpfp and remnant single pass intake manifold. IMO it should produce a reliable 720-730 whp without stressing the fuel system too much.

 

[rottmore]

People are mentioning precision less and less these days

Oh yea forgot about them. Precision and Xona as well

 

[rottmore]

This is honestly a big impact on DI upgrades being successful.

The biggest issue I see with B58TU HPFP upgrades is that the HPFP spring is very stiff. This pushes on the exhaust cam and adds extra resistance that VANOS has to overcome to maintain desired cam timing.

In a lot of cases, cam timing will walk and vanos will struggle to maintain targets. Thicker oil can help, but doesn't always completely eliminate the issue.

That's why my opinion is PI is better on Gen 2 B58s shooting for big power.

Also, at a certain point you'll still need a LPFP upgrade. This is still best controlled by Reflex, so not saving money there. Also you'll want an upgraded intake manifold for higher boost levels. So, again, still spending that money. Then you're only really saving a couple hundred bucks for the injectors compared to just starting with PI anyway.

Kern I'm starting a gofundme page for your supra. Plus its alot more fun in this forums

 

[AJRMKV]

Kern I'm starting a gofundme page for your supra. Plus its alot more fun in this forums

I'll donate spare parts

 

[Gryph8n]

Pure 900 is a good option for maxing out your wHP without building the engine, and keeping stock turbo location. LPFP, flexFuel and ethanol... Port injection manifold as added benefit of cooling too.

 

[Z4m40i]

I did have cam walk issues with Fx400X HPFP and S58 injectors at 28psi in 5th gear that would push the car into limp mode. Oil at the time was 0w30.

It was solved with 5W40 oil and a revision by David shoup. Dorch had mentioned that they have a different spring than spool to avoid this issue, but at the end of the day all these pumps are from the same manufacturer and are the same model.

I've had cam walk issues on and off, but almost always in 5th as well. The last revision that bumped up my oil pressure even more seemed to have fixed it.
(13) What's causing my tune to break up in 5th gear? | SupraMKV - 2020+ Toyota Supra Forum (A90 MKV Generation)

The solution for cam walk (assuming the actuators and bolt are working correctly) is pretty simple. I don't think this is a write off on DI being a reliable plug and play solution.

Do you have any sources to Dorch and spool making the same pump? I've talked to both when I was upgrading my HPFP and Dorch seems to really know their product vs. Spool.

 

[AJRMKV]

I've had cam walk issues on and off, but almost always in 5th as well. The last revision that bumped up my oil pressure even more seemed to have fixed it.
(13) What's causing my tune to break up in 5th gear? | SupraMKV - 2020+ Toyota Supra Forum (A90 MKV Generation)

The solution for cam walk (assuming the actuators and bolt are working correctly) is pretty simple. I don't think this is a write off on DI being a reliable plug and play solution.

Do you have any sources to Dorch and spool making the same pump? I've talked to both when I was upgrading my HPFP and Dorch seems to really know their product vs. Spool.

The supplier. There's alot more conscientiousness within the ranks at Dorch generally speaking, and instead of simply buying a product and rushing it to market with the "if big company make product, product good" approach, they take part in the design and do extensive testing themselves.

Where as it appears Spool's priority is to rush to market with it to be first.

 

[razorlab]

People are mentioning precision less and less these days


I was joking, but now that you say that, I did have cam walk issues with Fx400X HPFP and S58 injectors at 28psi in 5th gear that would push the car into limp mode. Oil at the time was 0w30.

It was solved with 5W40 oil and a revision by David shoup. Dorch had mentioned that they have a different spring than spool to avoid this issue, but at the end of the day all these pumps are from the same manufacturer and are the same model.

This season’s changes include an upgrade to Nostrums latest injectors, PR stage 2.5 lpfp and remnant single pass intake manifold. IMO it should produce a reliable 720-730 whp without stressing the fuel system too much.

Dorch does it too unless you up the oil pressure. First track day with the Dorch it happened to me shifting into 6th. Upped the oil pressure in the pits and it never happened again.

Also, Dorch has been absolutely fantastic with support. I’ve asked them all sorts of questions, even had them look over some logs for me. A+

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