Article - Akio Toyoda's Sports Car (and FT-1 Supra) Problem

[gymratter]

Before I bought my frs, I walked into a Lexus dealer to test their sports sedans, and when I asked, it seemed they had nothing under 4,000 pounds...the salesman suggested I go test drive a Frs. The rest is history....

By the way I'll take that 200 pounder of yours if you can find me one!

well yes their current line up is full of heavy luxury cars. but i would think maybe Toyota could use the joint platform to maybe introduces a: 1. a Z3/Z4, SLK, TT and etc competitor. 2. a AMG GT/SL, 911, 6 series fighter?

SC300 - 3,485 lb
SC400 - 3,604 lb

NA Supra - 3,329 lb
TT Supra - 3,461 lb

That would step on RC-F's toe.

1st it was just a hypothetical statement. 2nd no it wouldn't. thats like saying the BMW's version of the joint project is stepping on the toes of the M4. or the new AMG GT is stepping on the toes of the C63 AMG. different class of cars. a so called "Lexus version of the FT1" could be both lighter and smaller than the RCF. the RCF is more of a larger luxury cruiser, while a Lexus FT1 could be more sportier. again, just fun thinking, nothing more.

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[kamran]

SC300 - 3,485 lb
SC400 - 3,604 lb

.

Wasn't this from their good old days when they were just starting to chase Cadillac lovers looking for reliability....?

Really sad to see the Japanese market departing from Their roots to chase the American big and comfy car buyers.

Civic/Corola now are bigger and heavier than the original Accord/Camry now...!

Lexus now is the new Cadillac

 

[Scino]

1st it was just a hypothetical statement. 2nd no it wouldn't. thats like saying the BMW's version of the joint project is stepping on the toes of the M4. or the new AMG GT is stepping on the toes of the C63 AMG. different class of cars. a so called "Lexus version of the FT1" could be both lighter and smaller than the RCF. the RCF is more of a larger luxury cruiser, while a Lexus FT1 could be more sportier. again, just fun thinking, nothing more.

C63AMG and AMG GT is not a really good example. Even black series C63 will not be priced as much as AMG GT.
And yes, I believe that BMW project car will step on M4 toe's if it's priced similarly. I can see BMW version priced higher enough out of M4 though.

 

[Craigy]

Agreed AMG GT is effectively double the price of a C63 AMG.

Lexus sells far fewer sportscars than does BMW, so the effective cannibalization would be larger at Lexus if they had two similar sportscar offerings. The Lexus version of the FT1 would necessarily be very luxurious and therefore end up ticking many of the same boxes as RCF (really it would be a better car than the RCF).

For what it's worth, there was only one year of overlap between BMW's E46 M3 and the Z4M Coupe. Chassis and engine wise, the Z4M was essentially a ZCP M3 with a shorter wheelbase and without the backseats. They didn't sell a lot of Z4M's in 2006 (or in 07 or 08 for that matter).

BMW's next gen Z3/Z4/Z5 will fill a similar role to the previous Z3 and current Z4. The overlap with the M4 would only really occur if they give us another M-edition Z4 or Z5. We haven't even seen the new Z so a theoretical Z5 M is a long way off.

 

[Craigy]

Wasn't this from their good old days when they were just starting to chase Cadillac lovers looking for reliability....?

Really sad to see the Japanese market departing from Their roots to chase the American big and comfy car buyers.

Civic/Corola now are bigger and heavier than the original Accord/Camry now...!

Lexus now is the new Cadillac

Gross.

Lexus has always been a big luxurious plush car. 1st car was the LS. That is Lexus roots.

When Lexus' lineup turns completely hideous and they start making everything out of thin plastic, your comparison will be justified.

 

[Scino]

Agreed AMG GT is effectively double the price of a C63 AMG.

Lexus sells far fewer sportscars than does BMW, so the effective cannibalization would be larger at Lexus if they had two similar sportscar offerings. The Lexus version of the FT1 would necessarily be very luxurious and therefore end up ticking many of the same boxes as RCF (really it would be a better car than the RCF).

For what it's worth, there was only one year of overlap between BMW's E46 M3 and the Z4M Coupe. Chassis and engine wise, the Z4M was essentially a ZCP M3 with a shorter wheelbase and without the backseats. They didn't sell a lot of Z4M's in 2006 (or in 07 or 08 for that matter).

BMW's next gen Z3/Z4/Z5 will fill a similar role to the previous Z3 and current Z4. The overlap with the M4 would only really occur if they give us another M-edition Z4 or Z5. We haven't even seen the new Z so a theoretical Z5 M is a long way off.

Even BMW Supra project cannibalize M4 sales, it wouldn't be much of a deal for them. They sell 3/4 series and SUVs enough that they don't care about Z4 and 7 series sales anymore. All they want from partnering are fuel cell and hybrid.

 

[kamran]

Gross.

Lexus has always been a big luxurious plush car. 1st car was the LS. That is Lexus roots.

When Lexus' lineup turns completely hideous and they start making everything out of thin plastic, your comparison will be justified.

So true...lol

I was referring to the Japenses car roots, in the case of Lexus, it'd be the "early" Toyotas.

 

[Supra93]

So if FT-1 is priced at $60k; what do you guys think the BMW counterpart "Z5" will start at? I'm thinking maybe around the $70k range? That would make it higher than the M4 at $64k, and lower than the SL and 911 which both starts at $84k.

 

[Craigy]

So if FT-1 is priced at $60k; what do you guys think the BMW counterpart "Z5" will start at? I'm thinking maybe around the $70k range? That would make it higher than the M4 at $64k, and lower than the SL and 911 which both starts at $84k.

Prob ~$50k-$55k and more with options. Z5 will be similar in form to the current Z4, which only comes with a 4 cylinder as base and optional 300 horsepower 6. It won't be a per-se counterpart to the FT1, at least not until a Z5M or M Coupe arrives. The name indicates it'll be bigger which might be true, especially if making room below for a new Z3, but there are limits to how big a sporty convertible can get IMO.

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