Article - Akio Toyoda's Sports Car (and FT-1 Supra) Problem

[gymratter]

^all this talk about BMW, all of you guys just give me a idea for a new thread

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[AZ Wildcat]

@gymratter do you have Miata sales numbers throughout its life so we can see if it suffered from this "extreme decay cycle"? That seems to be a very niche sports car which managed to avoid being killed off after all these years despite low sales numbers.

 

[gymratter]

sure, here you go.

Mazda MX-5 Miata
1989: 23,052
1990: 35,944
1991: 31,240
1992: 24,964
1993: 21,588
1994: 21,400
1995: 20,174
1996: 18,408
1997: 17,218
1998: 19,845 (NB introduces)
1999: 17,738
2000: 18,299
2001: 16,486
2002: 14,392
2003: 10,920
2004: 9,356
2005: 9,801
2006: 16,897 (NC introduces)
2007: 15,075
2008: 10,977
2009: 7,917
2010: 6,370
2011: 5,674
2012: 6,305
2013: 5,780
2014: 4,745

might as well throw in the Z as well.

Nissan 350z and 370z
2002: 13,253
2003: 36,728
2004: 30,690
2005: 27,278
2006: 24,635
2007: 18,957
2008: 10,337
2009: 13,117 (370z introduces)
2010: 10,215
2011: 7,328
2012: 7,338
2013: 6,561
2014: 7,199

& the twins

Scion FR-S
2012: 11,417
2013: 18,327
2014: 14,062

Subaru BRZ
2012: 4,144
2013: 8,587
2014: 7,504

 

[gymratter]

 

[Supraman]

The MKIV Supra has a huge gap compared to the previous generations. I'm assuming this had to do with the price point of the MKIV.

 

[EvoX]

Damn MKIV Supras didn't sell that well at all compared to previous generations. I woulda guessed it had much higher sales than that.

 

[AZ Wildcat]

sure, here you go.

Mazda MX-5 Miata
1989: 23,052
1990: 35,944
1991: 31,240
1992: 24,964
1993: 21,588
1994: 21,400
1995: 20,174
1996: 18,408
1997: 17,218
1998: 19,845 (NB introduces)
1999: 17,738
2000: 18,299
2001: 16,486
2002: 14,392
2003: 10,920
2004: 9,356
2005: 9,801
2006: 16,897 (NC introduces)
2007: 15,075
2008: 10,977
2009: 7,917
2010: 6,370
2011: 5,674
2012: 6,305
2013: 5,780
2014: 4,745

might as well throw in the Z as well.

Nissan 350z and 370z
2002: 13,253
2003: 36,728
2004: 30,690
2005: 27,278
2006: 24,635
2007: 18,957
2008: 10,337
2009: 13,117 (370z introduces)
2010: 10,215
2011: 7,328
2012: 7,338
2013: 6,561
2014: 7,199

& the twins

Scion FR-S
2012: 11,417
2013: 18,327
2014: 14,062

Subaru BRZ
2012: 4,144
2013: 8,587
2014: 7,504

Thanks. Looks like all these sports cars suffer from the same drop off in sales. But as long as the company expects this, hopefully they'll price it accordingly and support it throughout the model life to keep sales from declining too much.

 

[Scino]

GT-R R35 is the only one doing exceptionally well. The reason is, it gets upgrade every year. I think Nissan "gets it". A sportscar needs upgrade every year or every other year to keep it from being forgettable by media and potential buyers alike. When GT-R is in every performance car of the year for the last 5 years, it's hard to forget its existence. Every conversation will have GT-R thrown in there, and even muscle car people always refer their muscle not be able to catch up with GT-R despite of having more power. GT-R is just everywhere in automotive world.

 

[Supra93]

Here are some prices from Cars.com

1992 Toyota Supra MSRP/Invoice
Base 2dr Coupe - $26,290/$21,558
Turbo 2dr Coupe - $29,900/$24,518

1993 Toyota Supra MSRP/Invoice
Base 2dr Coupe - $33,900/$27,798
Turbo 2dr Coupe - $39,900/$32,718

Price differences
Base - $7,610 or ($12,467.55 in 2015)
Turbo - $10,000 or ($16,383.11 in 2015)

Rate of inflation

1992 Supra
Base - $44,360
Turbo - $50,451

1993 Supra
Base - $55,538
Turbo - $65,368

http://www.cars.com/toyota/supra/1992/snapshot/

http://www.cars.com/toyota/supra/1993/snapshot

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

 

[FRS-Man]

Toyota (Lexus) released the LF-A for the halo image and knowing that they'd lose money on every single one sold, so hopefully even when the MKV Supra declines in sales over the years, the company will still stand by it because it's the Toyota brand's halo car.

 

[Craigy]

Higher price yields lower sales. Fewer people can afford the car. The MkIV was a really expensive car at the time.

It is interesting to see sales figures for GT-R and R8 though. Even though percentage wise it's pretty volatile year to year, somehow they manage to avoid decreasing sales. I think some of this is definitely due to continued improvement year after year, but I think it's also due to both cars remaining pretty much the apex predators of their markets throughout their lifespans. In the time they've been out, nothing has really come along to dethrone them, even today, and not much is on the horizon.

I wonder why the Z languished so much. Really it still sells fairly well but just not compared to those initial years. Perhaps there just wasn't a lot else on the market circa 2004, and they're still producing virtually the same car today that they did in 2002.

 

[daboss]

Higher price yields lower sales. Fewer people can afford the car. The MkIV was a really expensive car at the time.

If the price predictions I've read here are accurate, then the MKV should be just as expensive, relatively speaking, when it comes out in the $50-60k range. And if that's the case, will it sell in about the same numbers as the MKIV, or more/less?

 

[Supra93]

At $50k-$60k, I don't think it will come anywhere near the Corvette, but it will most likely out sale the more expensive $100k+ GT-R and $150k+ NSX.

 

[Craigy]

If the price predictions I've read here are accurate, then the MKV should be just as expensive, relatively speaking, when it comes out in the $50-60k range. And if that's the case, will it sell in about the same numbers as the MKIV, or more/less?

MSRP actually jumped around quite a bit year after year for the MkIV... I think in 1995 you could have paid as much as $50k for a well optioned Supra Turbo, which is something like $75-80k in today's money. http://mkiv.com/specifications/sticker/95_turbo_sticker.jpg Prices fell in 97, 98, but it was still a $60-$65k proposition factoring inflation.

I think the market is a little different now than it was back then, more people in the world with more money to spend, so they'll sell more than they did back then. But yeah ultimately it'll still be low production, which IMO isn't a bad thing.

At $50k-$60k, I don't think it will come anywhere near the Corvette, but it will most likely out sale the more expensive $100k+ GT-R and $150k+ NSX.

Yeah Corvette has a much wider audience and would outsell Supra on name alone. I'd suspect most non-car people don't even know what a Supra is.

 

[323 Rider]

At $50k-$60k, I don't think it will come anywhere near the Corvette, but it will most likely out sale the more expensive $100k+ GT-R and $150k+ NSX.

I think that'll definitely be true, and the Corvette already doesn't sell in huge numbers.

Here were the last few months' Corvette sales figures for reference.

Jan 2015 - 2,127
Dec 2014 - 3,552
Nov 2014 - 2,378
Oct 2014 - 2,959
Sep 2014 - 2,467
Aug 2014 - 2,679

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