Catted vs Catless... My story with Data to share

A90_Freak

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Nice write up , the results are amazing . I’m glad that you changed it to catless dp .

Tha catted downpipe was restricting the Pure800 . The hp gain were outstanding with nice backfires

I’m really happy that you have reached your goal . Now wait for colder weather and your car will be in high/mid 6 second (60 to130 mph) for sure .

Keep it up :thumbsup:
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a90moe

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Nice write up , the results are amazing . I’m glad that you changed it to catless dp .

Tha catted downpipe was restricting the Pure800 . The hp gain were outstanding with nice backfires

I’m really happy that you have reached your goal . Now wait for colder weather and your car will be in high/mid 6 second (60 to130 mph) for sure .

Keep it up :thumbsup:
Thanks for the local support brother means a lot :love:
 

Nathwraith

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Great gains for the catless DP. I was surprised to read your mod list and that you went with a catted DP originally.

Ideal setup with the lure 800, meth and uprated exchangers.
 
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a90moe

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Great gains for the catless DP. I was surprised to read your mod list and that you went with a catted DP originally.

Ideal setup with the lure 800, meth and uprated exchangers.
To be honest I did not have going bigger turbo on my mind.. Also parts kept coming in to help with what I was facing..

Got the catted down pipe since I was on stock tune and did not want to flash my car
 

MikeD

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I thought the muffler generally ate up any flames.. Is this a straight pipe as well or just catless w/ tune and turbo? Nice to have figured out the issue and congrats on the 500 club!

Hi all, long read below..

Needed to share this

A month back I added a Pure800 turbo to my car, decided to go with Ecutek as a tuning platform. Car was tuned and it felt a bit faster than stage 2.. Than only way to tell was a 100-200 run to compare against my previous stage 2 tune file.. Issue was that the stage 2 runs were done in cooler weather..

Anyways, with the Pure800 car recorded an 8.40sec run in 40C weather.. Stage 2 recorded a 8.30sec run in 25C weather..

It was definitely the weather.. Now to combat heat

CSF heat exchanger was added... No improvement
AEM meth kit was added (cooling no tune)... Tiny improvement

Main issue, timing was very low.. 6 degrees max

Graph below shows a log I have that best describes this:

https://datazap.me/u/a90moe/rev-20-4th-gear-pull?log=0&data=10-19-20-21-22-23-24-25

I ask a friend who has a stage 2 to do the 100-200 run and he gets a 9.57sec in similar weather conditions (40C at night).. Ok, I was relieved to see that it was around a second slower..

Tuner trying to chase timing.. Heat and fuel did not give us any room.. Excellent improvement in 100-200 time, 7.72sec now and I was pleased

IMG-3176.PNG


Finally dynoed the car and made 444whp WTF?!... Back to square one, car should be making a MINIMUM of 480whp.. Did not do anything and tried to live with it.

Yesterday was the breakthrough..

A friend with identical mods decided to do Ecutek with my tuner, identical mods except he has a catless DP. Using my cars map as a base with slight pressure/heat changes due to it not having a cat his car felt like it had a lot more than my 444whp Supra

Logs show timing of 10 degrees and the car felt happy & fast

Looks like my Supra was made on a Monday we said and laughed together.. We did not give up, comparing the two the ONLY difference was the catted DP on my car (Activeautowerke) vs his catless DP

Pressure tables were lower and cat heat limits looked like they were at the max due to the extreme weather

Anyways, decided to go all in. Was lucky to find a local shop that has an AMS catless DP

AMS catless vs AA catted DP

IMG-3221.JPG


From the get go using the same exact tune car felt faster and had more torque..

Decided a 100-200 run would be best to compare..

90F weather DA 913M - Catted DP - 7.72sec
104F weather DA 1129M - Catless DP - 7.34sec

Ok, so 0.38sec improvement in worse conditions!!! DP switch only

IMG-3220.PNG


After correcting the tune for the DP difference (Same exact base map sent to my friend) did this log:

https://datazap.me/u/a90moe/rev-30-4th-gear-pull?log=0&data=13-23-24-25-26-27-28-29

Timing is up to 10.5 degrees now, car feels A LOT faster even in summer heat

So to test out the 100-200 run..

First try, starting in 4th gear, spinning through all of 4th gear even with 295 rears

90F weather DA 913M - Catted DP - 7.72sec
104F weather DA 1129M - Catless DP - 7.34sec
95F weather DA 1006M - Catless DP new tune - 6.99sec with traction issues

Will do low/mid 6's easy with better tires


Car should be at around 500whp now on 91 pump gas tune.. Will dyno to confirm, 100-200 time supports my guess for now

IMG-3218.PNG


Moral of the story..

For a stock tune car, you can't beat a catted DP.. No CEL is the main reason also providing better flow and improved sound

Plus the cat used is GESI and known for the high quality

In my case, under my conditions in extreme heat, with the turbo upgrade.. the catted Down pipe ROBBED power

Oh and since my car is not tuned on meth (added for cooling)..

RACECAR flames LOL :nixon:

IMG-3222.PNG


Apologies for the long post..

Data to share and my loss is your gain (Time & money)

@Paynful is the guy for your Supra.. 2nd fastest ET now in the world, fastest all boost stock frame turbo, guy is humble and supportive to the absolute max

Thanks for reading
 
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a90moe

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I thought the muffler generally ate up any flames.. Is this a straight pipe as well or just catless w/ tune and turbo? Nice to have figured out the issue and congrats on the 500 club!
Catless DP + exhaust (Akrapovic )
 

Frosty

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Moe,
Thank you very much for sharing your findings! I know this cost time, money and headaches, and even though you are not required to share, you still did it. In my experience people don't like to share their knowledge and even more so when it costs them money. So I am very appreciative knowing the Supra group has good people! Good luck with your future plans! Enjoy!
 
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a90moe

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Moe,
Thank you very much for sharing your findings! I know this cost time, money and headaches, and even though you are not required to share, you still did it. In my experience people don't like to share their knowledge and even more so when it costs them money. So I am very appreciative knowing the Supra group has good people! Good luck with your future plans! Enjoy!
I would not want the kind of frustration I've been through to my worst enemy, high expectations that were shattered, going through logs/ tune files on a daily basis for close to 30 days, money spent on dyno logs, mixing race gas to try if fuel was the issue, adding methanol, buying more car parts, staying up at night waiting for better weather...etc

Posting a thread about this with data is the least I can do.. At least I came through with a lot of knowledge tuning wise
 

Mysta

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I would not want the kind of frustration I've been through to my worst enemy, high expectations that were shattered, going through logs/ tune files on a daily basis for close to 30 days, money spent on dyno logs, mixing race gas to try if fuel was the issue, adding methanol, buying more car parts, staying up at night waiting for better weather...etc

Posting a thread about this with data is the least I can do.. At least I came through with a lot of knowledge tuning wise
Also have my gratitude! I plan on sharing my journey as well once I get moving. The only difference I think is I am going flexfuel.
 
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a90moe

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Also have my gratitude! I plan on sharing my journey as well once I get moving. The only difference I think is I am going flexfuel.
Definitely in my plans (Port injection)

600whp+ territory :bow:
 

ALEXVOSS123

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I had bad thoughts on the catted downpipe I have always thought it somehow doesn't make the same power as the catless I mean especially in the supra , good to hear that you joined the catless club lol and thx for sharing the knowledge among others keep it up.
 

luchocampusano

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time to increase boost and better octane ... with Pure800 you could make 5.5sec 100 to 200 without nos
 

Vizion

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Im actually on the fence of going catted vs catless. I don't plan to go full race mode with a lot of power. Maybe just squeeze a bit more power for my daily needs. I am more interested in the sound. I have a 2021 so they really toned down the burgles and pops and that was such a disappointment for me. I was wondering how the sound was going from catted to catless. Is there rasp on a catless? I just want a deeper and throatier tone that will make more burgles and pops. I plan to just stick with downpipe + tune + intake/chargepipe. Thanks.
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