Disappointed with my European spec Supra

[PaulFRDE]

well, i learned about a new country between Italy and France today

There is a hilarious legend about the US gov trying to send development aid to Andorra because they thought it was in Africa. I don't know if true though.

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[Crimzon_Skyz]

High guys, my first post to say I feel a bit cheated. Just switched into a new 2023 Supra from a 2017 Cayman S. Watched and read loads of reviews and I was prepared for the handling to be a little less than the Porsche, what I didn't expect (given that the Cayman was the 4 cylinder less nice sounding version) was that the Supra would be pants in comparison. Less power, less noise, no pops and bangs, even the gearbox is way off the instant change of the Porsche PDK and I'm missing the suspension upgrades. Of course the problem is that all the reviews I read were from the states and Canada, if I'd have paid more attention I'd have realised the Euro version is neutered. Just for a laugh, guess how much you guys think the local Toyota dealer in France wanted for a 2000km oil change? It took me half an hour to explain why I didn't want to wait for the 10000 KM one. So just for GR oil, filter and 30 minutes Labour, have a guess?

Im not going to say im any sort of authority at all but considering the obvious introduction of OPF to the EU & UK im shocked you are surprised about the noise reduction. The Cayman most likely didnt have it (unless Porsche were eager). Also everyone knows the PDK is the best in the business and with the Supra not even having dual clutch its gunna loose out. Better for town driving but not as a weekend toy.

On a more positive note there are quite a few threads already if you wanted to search about "Back Box deletes" or bypasses. They are usually very cheap, keep a stock look and from personal experience improve the sound to a reasonable point.

 

[Rupert]

i read france and spain but started spiraling on the Catalan language among other things lol. oops, thanks for the correction.

whoa.. 20k eco tax.. that's almost another down payment

This is the top end of the eco tax scale, g/km de CO2 on the left, 2022 rate in the middle and 2023 on the right in Euros, so multiply by 1.1 for USD. At 226 exactly my old S2000 would now be 50k eco tax.

This is the Supra :

 

[Rupert]

There is a hilarious legend about the US gov trying to send development aid to Andorra because they thought it was in Africa. I don't know if true though.

Especially funny because Andorra is a tax haven and stuffed full of rich people, one of the cleanest and safest places in the world.

 

[Rupert]

Im not going to say im any sort of authority at all but considering the obvious introduction of OPF to the EU & UK im shocked you are surprised about the noise reduction. The Cayman most likely didnt have it (unless Porsche were eager). Also everyone knows the PDK is the best in the business and with the Supra not even having dual clutch its gunna loose out. Better for town driving but not as a weekend toy.

On a more positive note there are quite a few threads already if you wanted to search about "Back Box deletes" or bypasses. They are usually very cheap, keep a stock look and from personal experience improve the sound to a reasonable point.

The Cayman was arriving at the point of potentially expensive bills, I sold it for almost the cost of a new Supra. It was an impulse buy while looking for a Yaris GR, the Supra was a cancelled order, been sat in the show room for a few months and the dealer was keen to deal.

 

[Awales74]

the Euro version is neutered

Curious. How is the euro version neutered? I know they have an extra mystery black box after the cat to get extra clean air. But what else do they do? Is it not the same B58 inline 6 with turbo? Is it detuned or some such?

I've always been curious about threads like this. You test drove it I presume? Maybe too shy to give it the beans to get a sense of it?

Regarding the dual clutch, I've always read mixed reviews. It's more complex, less reliable, and more expensive to produce only a modicum of performance improvement. Like the MGU-H in F1 that will be removed in 2026 due to cost. It's effective but brutally expensive. And it's still must be replaced by a sequential transmission if you're going full race car. So it finds itself in no-mans land. Curious to others opinions.

 

[Carl - Driveway Labs]

Y'all voted for Europe to be this way

 

[Rupert]

Curious. How is the euro version neutered? I know they have an extra mystery black box after the cat to get extra clean air. But what else do they do? Is it not the same B58 inline 6 with turbo? Is it detuned or some such?

I've always been curious about threads like this. You test drove it I presume? Maybe too shy to give it the beans to get a sense of it?

Regarding the dual clutch, I've always read mixed reviews. It's more complex, less reliable, and more expensive to produce only a modicum of performance improvement. Like the MGU-H in F1 that will be removed in 2026 due to cost. It's effective but brutally expensive. And it's still must be replaced by a sequential transmission if you're going full race car. So it finds itself in no-mans land. Curious to others opinions.

No chance of a test drive, it had 8 miles on it in the showroom and it's the only one I've seen in this part of the world due to the eco taxes in France. Had to ask nicely to sit in it. So I read and watched plenty of reviews but none really talked about how different the current Euro spec is. It seems to me it's like the 2019 US spec but with a quiet exhaust. To be honest that's the main issue and I find I can solve that for a couple of grand. For me this is more of a GT car, I've got the use of a Yaris GR and a Puma ST for the twisties.

Going back a step the Cayman was almost too good, the limit was too far beyond my capabilities, not the case with Supra which lets you know quite quickly it has it's limits, a bit like the 370Z I had before. So there are positives.

 

[Rupert]

Y'all voted for Europe to be this way

How so? The EU is a lot like the USA, although ironically while each country remains independent some things like emissions are centralised. But each country takes their own approach to eco tax.

 

[Awales74]

I've got the use of a Yaris GR and a Puma ST for the twisties.

I came from a car that excelled in the twisties so I know what you mean. But living in Dallas (flat grid for almost 50 miles in any direction), I find a little more fun with the accelerator pedal than the steering wheel. You're in the mountains so I can see how you'd have a different point of view.

Curious which Caymen you had? Base, S, GTS..

Regarding things you can do to improve the car in twisties? My experience nothing more than tires and sways. Otherwise the car is what the car is in this dimension.

 

[PaulFRDE]

Curious. How is the euro version neutered? I know they have an extra mystery black box after the cat to get extra clean air. But what else do they do? Is it not the same B58 inline 6 with turbo? Is it detuned or some such?

I've always been curious about threads like this. You test drove it I presume? Maybe too shy to give it the beans to get a sense of it?

Regarding the dual clutch, I've always read mixed reviews. It's more complex, less reliable, and more expensive to produce only a modicum of performance improvement. Like the MGU-H in F1 that will be removed in 2026 due to cost. It's effective but brutally expensive. And it's still must be replaced by a sequential transmission if you're going full race car. So it finds itself in no-mans land. Curious to others opinions.

The EU Supra has twin scroll turbo (instead of single turbo entry) but more compression, and a particulate filter.
This means we have less power especially in high rpm, but a bit more torque in very low rpm. The EU are very quiet because of the filter, but a lot of english guys make the „black box“ modification which improves that.
Compared to a cayman, I think the supra is less engaging to drive, but the ton of work we have is fun and on track we can exit corners like rockets ?

 

[jtsang25]

The EU Supra has twin scroll turbo (instead of single turbo entry) but more compression, and a particulate filter.
This means we have less power especially in high rpm, but a bit more torque in very low rpm. The EU are very quiet because of the filter, but a lot of english guys make the „black box“ modification which improves that.
Compared to a cayman, I think the supra is less engaging to drive, but the ton of work we have is fun and on track we can exit corners like rockets ?

All have the same twin scroll turbos. That's not what's different.

 

[ColonelAdama]

All have the same twin scroll turbos. That's not what's different.

Isn't it just that the Euro spec is still using the 2 port B58B30M1 variant rather than the US spec 6 port B58B30O1? That and the OPF. They are both TU motors though.

OP should be able to liven up the car quite a bit with a few mods - even without voiding warranty or emissions regulation stuff.

 

[jtsang25]

Isn't it just that the Euro spec is still using the 2 port B58B30M1 variant rather than the US spec 6 port B58B30O1? That and the OPF. They are both TU motors though.

OP should be able to liven up the car quite a bit with a few mods - even without voiding warranty or emissions regulation stuff.

Ya I think 2 port is still used in Europe that's why they still have the 330 whatever stock power 2020 had. 2020 honestly isn't that slow either. Tune, downpipe, and exhaust for sound and it's just fine.

 

[ColonelAdama]

Ya I think 2 port is still used in Europe that's why they still have the 330 whatever stock power 2020 had. 2020 honestly isn't that slow either. Tune, downpipe, and exhaust for sound and it's just fine.

I think what Europe has is actually slightly different than US Spec 2020 Supras, which had a B58B30C. I couldn't tell you the difference between those 2 ports though.

Euro Supras get the same engine that is in every 40i BMW(non M-performance). Lucky us for getting the spicy version - but won't make much of difference after tuning.

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