Formula 1 Talk

[johnnyskids]

He either outbraked himself slightly or intentionally drove Max off the track as he was off the racing line slightly wide. You can see Russell is on the line. Again it was just first corner I'm not saying Oscar did anything that any other driver would’ve done in the same situation. I agree Max should’ve got behind or give Him the position back. But we all know Max isn’t going to give a inch.

I will agree that Oscar was off the racing line...but exactly how could he have been on the racing line? Remember this is side by side leading to the corner, so Oscar was certainly going to be further inside than he usual wants to be.

I'll disagree that he braked too late, he made the corner, maybe just, but that's a MASSIVE difference than Max.

With Max, he played the trick of coasting ahead or even at the apex with zero chance of making that turn regardless of who was next to him. If you look at the telemetry, he was going considerably faster than any driver was capable of making that turn, and certainly much higher than that RB could ever have made it.

We both know that Max can be a hot head on the track, add in all the talk about his frustrations and possibly leaving the team, and you have a RB team that is walking on eggshells and that's why I think they chose not to ask Max to give the place back immediately.

The FIA has always been inconsistent, and I think it's important that we understand that it's not clear how they will interpret an "incident" this year when compared to previous ones. In fact there can be adjustments made mid season that happen and are meant to improve the racing.

This type of incident in that corner could have been avoided completely, all you have to do is add a gravel trap, now Max would be much less likely to be okay carrying too much speed to get to the apex only to run himself wide into the gravel and losing a bunch of time. This year we've seen some corners getting this treatment and I think it's very smart of the FIA to do so.

Last comment on Max, I'm not really a fan of him as he holds himself over the team and the sport, meaning if he doesn't get his way, he'll be vocal on his criticism to his team and the stewards/FIA. When a penalty like this happens he turns into a toddler and basically refuses to talk about the issue, acknowledge any fault, or even able to talk about something positive from the race. So many other drivers in this situation are frustrated but are able to do interviews in a calm manner and point to the positives they can take from the race, Max typically can't/won't do this.

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[FLtrackdays]

I will agree that Oscar was off the racing line...but exactly how could he have been on the racing line? Remember this is side by side leading to the corner, so Oscar was certainly going to be further inside than he usual wants to be.

I'll disagree that he braked too late, he made the corner, maybe just, but that's a MASSIVE difference than Max.

With Max, he played the trick of coasting ahead or even at the apex with zero chance of making that turn regardless of who was next to him. If you look at the telemetry, he was going considerably faster than any driver was capable of making that turn, and certainly much higher than that RB could ever have made it.

We both know that Max can be a hot head on the track, add in all the talk about his frustrations and possibly leaving the team, and you have a RB team that is walking on eggshells and that's why I think they chose not to ask Max to give the place back immediately.

The FIA has always been inconsistent, and I think it's important that we understand that it's not clear how they will interpret an "incident" this year when compared to previous ones. In fact there can be adjustments made mid season that happen and are meant to improve the racing.

This type of incident in that corner could have been avoided completely, all you have to do is add a gravel trap, now Max would be much less likely to be okay carrying too much speed to get to the apex only to run himself wide into the gravel and losing a bunch of time. This year we've seen some corners getting this treatment and I think it's very smart of the FIA to do so.

Last comment on Max, I'm not really a fan of him as he holds himself over the team and the sport, meaning if he doesn't get his way, he'll be vocal on his criticism to his team and the stewards/FIA. When a penalty like this happens he turns into a toddler and basically refuses to talk about the issue, acknowledge any fault, or even able to talk about something positive from the race. So many other drivers in this situation are frustrated but are able to do interviews in a calm manner and point to the positives they can take from the race, Max typically can't/won't do this.

Agree with ya on all fronts (especially the gravel pit) other than the latter part about Max. I‘ve heard George, Charles, Lewis and many others push crazy positions just because they are so freaking insanely obsessively competitive. These guys live and breathe F1 and are going to believe they are right 99% of the time or they wouldn’t be in one of those coveted 20 positions.

Max is just Max and doesn’t sugar coat things (like I probably would, lol). Lewis is a Ham(ilton) and is usually much better with PR than Max. But I think Max did a really good job of holding back his emotions this time and not let his beliefs get the best of him. And kudos to him for being in a position to pull the strings. Again, if he didn’t take advantage of everything around him, he could be loosing out. He’s getting every square inch of what’s available to him. Another reason why I personally admire him. Laser focus is a word I’ve heard others use about Max. That has it’s pluses and minuses. I love it as a spectator. But as a competitor, if I was out there, ofc I’d say he’s a dick .

Oscar is my 2nd fav driver for the same reasons I mentioned above. I think he has that same Max potential to just put his head down. Love it!! I hope Oscar can keep it up. I doubt he’ll be apologizing to anyone anytime soon as well. He seems to have that ”F” off mentality that it takes, on track.

 

[johnnyskids]

Agree with ya on all fronts (especially the gravel pit) other than the latter part about Max. I‘ve heard George, Charles, Lewis and many others push crazy positions just because they are so freaking insanely obsessively competitive. These guys live and breathe F1 and are going to believe they are right 99% of the time or they wouldn’t be in one of those coveted 20 positions.

Max is just Max and doesn’t sugar coat things (like I probably would, lol). Lewis is a Ham(ilton) and is usually much better with PR than Max. But I think Max did a really good job of holding back his emotions this time and not let his beliefs get the best of him. And kudos to him for being in a position to pull the strings. Again, if he didn’t take advantage of everything around him, he could be loosing out. He’s getting every square inch of what’s available to him. Another reason why I personally admire him. Laser focus is a word I’ve heard others use about Max. That has it’s pluses and minuses. I love it as a spectator. But as a competitor, if I was out there, ofc I’d say he’s a dick .

Oscar is my 2nd fav driver for the same reasons I mentioned above. I think he has that same Max potential to just put his head down. Love it!! I hope Oscar can keep it up. I doubt he’ll be apologizing to anyone anytime soon as well. He seems to have that ”F” off mentality that it takes, on track.

I have always and will always say that Max is one of the best drivers on the grid, maybe the best today, and I have him in my top 5 all time. By no means am I saying he's not a good driver.

You say he held in his emotions well after the race.....you mean he chose not to talk about it because his body language, his tone, etc, would indicate he wasn't in fact keeping his emotions in check. "Pull the strings", do you mean making his team walk on egg shells, if they weren't afraid of him leaving they should and maybe would have told Max to give that position back right away and he might have been able to win. Instead they let the stewards deal with it and it definitely took him out of the running for a win.

I would say that Oscar does have some similarities, in that he's very focused, doesn't make many mistakes, and pushes the limit. There are some major differences, while Max can drive angry and somewhat out of control at times, Oscar has yet to display this behavior. Oscar is definitely not on the same level of Max when it comes to perfection of a lap or getting the absolute most out of his car, but he's young and could build those skills. The other major difference between the two is Oscar is extremely levelheaded and rarely do you see him show much emotions, this is the polar opposite of Max.

What is different this season and hopefully it stays this way, is that with Max not in the drivers championship lead he is less willing to risk his car to take out a rival. We have seen Max do this over the years, putting his car in a position where if the other driver doesn't back out they'll collide and possibly end both their races. He's been on his best behavior this season in this facet and it's nice not seeing these situations where contenders collide on track.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Wife and I worked all day & stayed up to watch the sprint and qualifying yesterday. Damn it was worth it!!! New track record, McLaren, Red Bull and Mercedes all up front (poor Ferrari left out). Will this be another race/fight to the 1st corner and see who wins the clean air wars? Can’t wait to watch it tonight (after work)!!

 

[johnnyskids]

Pretty fun weekend, definitely not a boring race. I will continue to say that I think Lando might be losing this drivers Championship with consistent mistakes every weekend it seems. Oscar just seems more consistent.

Lando has this really bad habit of "playing with his prey" for far too long. This past race it was against Max, just not getting by him fast enough and because of that Oscar was never really under any threat. We have got to hope that Lando will start to learn from these races and get more consistent moving forward.

Not a big fan of my team being 30+ seconds ahead of everyone else, that's not the racing I like to see at the front.

Watched the Formula E race in Monaco and let me just say that the race was much more exciting. In that crazy slow turn halfway through the race, don't know the name or the number, they were 3 cars wide at times, where as in F1 rarely do you see two wide. Just goes to show how much the size impacts racing on that track as Formula E cars are significantly smaller.

 

[johnnyskids]

Speaking of the Monaco GP, this year for F1 they mandated a two stop race. This is the sort of race that teams would love to not do any stop, just stay in the lead and don't let anyone to pass.

So thinking about this new rule change for this race, I was thinking about a certain strategy that I have seen in Indy Car but rarely if ever do you see if in F1, and wondering if this would work for Monaco. Let me explain it.

So the strategy in Indy Car was a driver chose to pit on the first lap to get off the worse tire, thus checking off the requirement to run both tires, and then the driver gets to drive the better tires for the entire race. But that's not what would translate to F1, what would is the fact that this Indy driver was then in clean air, banging out laps faster than if they were in the pack or even leading, also not being impacted by heating issues by following behind another driver.

So with that in mind, and this would be very situational as I don't think it's a strategy that all teams or situations could make work. But let me illustrate one that I think might work. Let's say a top 4 team driver doesn't make Q3, let's say it's Lewis Hamilton as an example, and he ends up starting the race in P12. As Lewis and the Ferrari are both very good drivers/cars, outside the points, could he start the race on softs (likely other teams ahead starting on Mediums) push really hard on the first lap, maybe make a pass, but even if he doesn't the softs would allow him to react quickly and avoid an accident. Then on that first lap pit, put on mediums or hards, and then go out and bang out quali laps in clean air. The goal would be a MEGA undercut, if he can be half a second quicker or more, over a 15-20 lap cycle before the other teams pit, Lewis could find himself well into the points by the time all the first pit stops cycle through. The idea would be to get both pits done and be in the lead as after that point you would control the race till the end.

The main issues of course is if there is any weather that requires you to pit for wet tires, or if there is a safety car or red flag that gives the other teams a cheap pit. But the logic could possibly work, seeing as the race is always a one stop and rarely are tires a big issue. Obviously if you are at the front the risk isn't worth it, and if your car/driver is slower, it also likely is too risky to go with, but if you are a faster driver in a faster car, out of place to start the race, it could be a strategy that catches other teams off guard.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Speaking of the Monaco GP, this year for F1 they mandated a two stop race. This is the sort of race that teams would love to not do any stop, just stay in the lead and don't let anyone to pass.

So thinking about this new rule change for this race, I was thinking about a certain strategy that I have seen in Indy Car but rarely if ever do you see if in F1, and wondering if this would work for Monaco. Let me explain it.

So the strategy in Indy Car was a driver chose to pit on the first lap to get off the worse tire, thus checking off the requirement to run both tires, and then the driver gets to drive the better tires for the entire race. But that's not what would translate to F1, what would is the fact that this Indy driver was then in clean air, banging out laps faster than if they were in the pack or even leading, also not being impacted by heating issues by following behind another driver.

So with that in mind, and this would be very situational as I don't think it's a strategy that all teams or situations could make work. But let me illustrate one that I think might work. Let's say a top 4 team driver doesn't make Q3, let's say it's Lewis Hamilton as an example, and he ends up starting the race in P12. As Lewis and the Ferrari are both very good drivers/cars, outside the points, could he start the race on softs (likely other teams ahead starting on Mediums) push really hard on the first lap, maybe make a pass, but even if he doesn't the softs would allow him to react quickly and avoid an accident. Then on that first lap pit, put on mediums or hards, and then go out and bang out quali laps in clean air. The goal would be a MEGA undercut, if he can be half a second quicker or more, over a 15-20 lap cycle before the other teams pit, Lewis could find himself well into the points by the time all the first pit stops cycle through. The idea would be to get both pits done and be in the lead as after that point you would control the race till the end.

The main issues of course is if there is any weather that requires you to pit for wet tires, or if there is a safety car or red flag that gives the other teams a cheap pit. But the logic could possibly work, seeing as the race is always a one stop and rarely are tires a big issue. Obviously if you are at the front the risk isn't worth it, and if your car/driver is slower, it also likely is too risky to go with, but if you are a faster driver in a faster car, out of place to start the race, it could be a strategy that catches other teams off guard.

Good explanation and that sounds really if that were to take place! However, what would be even better would be to ditch Monaco or perhaps even use the Indy cars for that race. Even with 2026 regs it won’t be enough to really keep that race more than a qualifying fest.

https://www.racefans.net/2024/05/31/f1-wont-significantly-reduce-car-size-in-2026-horner

 

[johnnyskids]

Good explanation and that sounds really if that were to take place! However, what would be even better would be to ditch Monaco or perhaps even use the Indy cars for that race. Even with 2026 regs it won’t be enough to really keep that race more than a qualifying fest.

https://www.racefans.net/2024/05/31/f1-wont-significantly-reduce-car-size-in-2026-horner

Unfortunately Monaco will continue on with F1 if only because of the money and history associated with that location (and also because this is one of the drivers home race).

Indy cars would be more entertaining for sure, but I can't see them running different cars altogether for one race. There isn't really any good solution for Monaco other than making the cars smaller for all the races.

I almost think they should lean into the whole qualifying thing, taking wheel to wheel action out of it altogether and using a qualifying to determine the next day. Let me explain a bit, so qualifying would give the "pole" setter the option on when they want to do their time attack the next day, as in what order. Then you'd have a set schedule on the "time attack" race the next day. Each driver is asked to do say between 5-10 laps and the combined time of those laps would be the order for results.

Now this would take away wheel to wheel racing, pit stops, tire strategy for the most part, ect., but what it would lead to is drivers pushing their cars to the absolute limit to get the lowest time for their "time attack", and viewers could watch in live action where the driver is compared to the other racers time. I think that could be pretty exciting, like an extended qualifying but without any traffic. Probably wouldn't be the best action to watch in person, but then it's not like Monaco GP's are overly exciting to watch in person anyway.

 

[Import111]

I have thought something similar about the time attack idea for Monaco.

 

[romanLegion9574]

Smaller cars and more compounds would make Monaco a bit more interesting again.

 

[BrettMRC]

I think with the crop of new drivers this year we will see at least one red flag during the race anyway, (Monaco) which will nullify at least one pit stop.

 

[FLtrackdays]

I think with the crop of new drivers this year we will see at least one red flag during the race anyway, (Monaco) which will nullify at least one pit stop.

All except Jack Doohan. Man that was quick!!

 

[johnnyskids]

I think with the crop of new drivers this year we will see at least one red flag during the race anyway, (Monaco) which will nullify at least one pit stop.

I would say a high chance, and if what happens this year mimics what happened last year (big crash on the first lap) it might be that much more valuable to do a pit stop strategy as I described above as you can catch back up to the back of the pack behind a safety car. But likely a lot more teams will be doing this strategy now that it's a "cheap" pit stop.

 

[johnnyskids]

Smaller cars and more compounds would make Monaco a bit more interesting again.

More compounds, I'm not really sure I follow how that would improve things. Do you mean just going a step softer in the range?

Monaco is a beautiful spot to be, but not a great place to race in these massive F1 cars.

Would be fun just having them all just use a new Mazda Miata or Subie BRZ and just see the skills of full display with equal equipment.

 

[Ron L]

OK, I just found this thread, and I'm not only a big F1 fan and IndyCar fan, but I raced sports cars wheel to wheel in the SCCA for over 15 years and I made it to the SCCA Runoffs back when you had to qualify.

I agree that Max is one of, if not the best F1 driver currently... but I'm not a fan.

I used to be a fan of Lewis, but he's getting a bit too long in the tooth (too old).

I like Lando, and he's been great for McLaren. But I think Oscar is about to become the #1 driver there, and I like him as well, but he doesn't show much emotion.

I liked George Russel even before he joined Merc. He got to the point while at Merc, that he was doing better than Lewis. But now I think Kimi has a chance to do the same thing to George that Oscar is doing to Lando!

I expect I'll probably be here most F1 weekends.

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