Formula 1 Talk

[Awales74]

Not all 5s penalties are created equal. Give it to Carlos at the end of the race for track limits and it costs a half a dozen positions. Give it to a rocket car that regularly wins by 20+s then its almost nothing.

And yes, it's the car that got suddenly better and not Max***. Max skill go from having to be gifted a championship to winning almost every race in a season? And good gash, you can't honestly think Checo is 2nd best driver in the field right?

NOTE: I firmly believe Max is a top tier driver. Alonso, Hamilton etc.. good. But he's not 20+s ahead every race good.

And you know Max is an immense prick when Toto is the voice of reason. F1, your bread and butter, invests billions on a track and you going to cry and moan? Toto getting mad with repeated denigration of the track and black eye on F1 -- that's the reasonable play.

And no Max didn't slow down to protect Checo. Max doesn't give two poops about Checo. He didn't help him in past races and he didn't help him this weekend. Carlos showed you how to play the DRS train game for the win. Not get to 2+ seconds ahead of your "teammate".

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[Denton]

I feel like Max only got 5 seconds because they dicked around for far too long trying to determine what they should've done; he should've just been immediately told to return the place.

 

[ColonelAdama]

gifted a championship

And you know Max is an immense prick

Max doesn't give two poops about Checo

bro sorry but you are way too biased to have a good take on the race or penalties ?

agree with @Denton that he should have immediately returned position.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Not all 5s penalties are created equal. Give it to Carlos at the end of the race for track limits and it costs a half a dozen positions. Give it to a rocket car that regularly wins by 20+s then its almost nothing.

And yes, it's the car that got suddenly better and not Max***. Max skill go from having to be gifted a championship to winning almost every race in a season? And good gash, you can't honestly think Checo is 2nd best driver in the field right?

NOTE: I firmly believe Max is a top tier driver. Alonso, Hamilton etc.. good. But he's not 20+s ahead every race good.

And you know Max is an immense prick when Toto is the voice of reason. F1, your bread and butter, invests billions on a track and you going to cry and moan? Toto getting mad with repeated denigration of the track and black eye on F1 -- that's the reasonable play.

And no Max didn't slow down to protect Checo. Max doesn't give two poops about Checo. He didn't help him in past races and he didn't help him this weekend. Carlos showed you how to play the DRS train game for the win. Not get to 2+ seconds ahead of your "teammate".

You said a lot.... and all of it was wrong.

"Toto is the voice of reason" ?????

Good Lord!

 

[Dannyvandelft]

I feel like Max only got 5 seconds because they dicked around for far too long trying to determine what they should've done; he should've just been immediately told to return the place.

GP told him immediately that they were happy to keep the position. They knew what they were doing. But they didn't expect Leclerc to re-pass him before the stop lol.

 

[kaj]

bro sorry but you are way too biased to have a good take on the race or penalties ?

agree with @Denton that he should have immediately returned position.

Agreed. Horrible take. ?

Max should have given the spot back so he could have won by even more. Lol. I kept saying that, knowing that a penalty would be worse.

 

[Denton]

GP told him immediately that they were happy to keep the position. They knew what they were doing. But they didn't expect Leclerc to re-pass him before the stop lol.

I meant that race control/whoever should've told Red Bull to swap as soon as it happened; simple accident that was caused by the track conditions that were fucking everyone over a little at first, so just get it reset and move on with the race.

 

[Zoomie]

You realize the only reason it didn't "feel" harsh enough was due to the last safety car and allowing Max a cheap tire change before bunching everyone back up before the restart. Had that not happened, that 5 second penalty served in the first pit stop would likely have been the reason why Max didn't win.

Absolutely. That's why I qualified my opinion by saying it didn't "feel" harsh enough because Max essentially got away with it. Put that aside for a second, I'd much rather see them MAKE the driver give the place back. It might feel unfair if they decide 10 minutes later that it was an illegal pass, but that's down to how fast the stewards can work - it doesn't invalidate the penalty. It's no different than deciding after a session to apply a 5 place grid penalty or a time penalty.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Absolutely. That's why I qualified my opinion by saying it didn't "feel" harsh enough because Max essentially got away with it. Put that aside for a second, I'd much rather see them MAKE the driver give the place back. It might feel unfair if they decide 10 minutes later that it was an illegal pass, but that's down to how fast the stewards can work - it doesn't invalidate the penalty. It's no different than deciding after a session to apply a 5 place grid penalty or a time penalty.

He didn't get away with it. The 5 seconds hurt him more than giving the place back. He was behind Charles when he served the 5 seconds. If he had given the place back, he wouldn't have had to.
All this nonsense about how Max got a free pit stop is just that. Nonsense. Ferrari made a Mercedes mistake, not pitting under the Safety Car. If you watched the cool down car (lol) you could see Charles' face when he asked if they pitted. When they said yes, his face showed it immediately that he should've too.

 

[Zoomie]

edit: My issue is that we can't really measure how much wear and heat Leclerc took being behind Max and passing him. Max didn't suffer that same tire wear and heating on brakes and engine because he never gave the place back and had to follow. Maybe he would have passed Leclerc two laps later, or maybe he would have blistered his tires and ruined his race. Instead he CHOSE clear air and a 5 second penalty.

The argument of whether the penalty had the desired impact is secondary to how FIA is applying stewards decisions. Letting the team decide to take the penalty that makes them suffer less is a bad idea, at least to me.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Well, thanks for letting me know my feelings are incorrect.

Lol has nothing to do with feelings. It's simple math. He was behind Charles and the pit stop took 7.7 seconds. If he had given the place back, it would've taken 2.7 seconds. And instead of being 9th, he'd have been 5th or something after his first stop.

 

[Zoomie]

And yes, wasn't trying to hide what I said, just realized it was unconstructive and tried to be less petty You're acting like the only time Max would have given the place back is when he served the penalty. That's not the case. He should have given it back much earlier, meaning he would have suffered being the follow car. I understand your point, but it's only applicable if Max had been made to give the place back in the 30 seconds after Charles passed him and before he pitted.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

And yes, wasn't trying to hide what I said, just realized it was unconstructive and tried to be less petty You're acting like the only time Max would have given the place back is when he served the penalty. That's not the case. He should have given it back much earlier, meaning he would have suffered being the follow car. I understand your point, but it's only applicable if Max had been made to give the place back in the 30 seconds after Charles passed him and before he pitted.

Yeah exactly, that's the unknown. Especially since the Redbull was a lot worse on the Medium than the Ferrari. I don't think Charles was fast enough to pull out a 5 second lead though if the places were changed right after the incident. Max would tried his hardest to stay in DRS range. But that's all hypothetical.

 

[Zoomie]

Sounds like we're in heated agreement. Cheers.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Sounds like we're in heated agreement. Cheers.

Nah, nothing heated. Just talking ?
I enjoyed the race very much. Would've been great to see Sainz up there too though. A 4 way battle would’ve been epic.

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