M2 Comp a league above MKV? EVO.co.uk article says as much

[GMsuperfan]

The article is about the 2020 BMW M2 Competition, not the new design.

My bad, then yes, it’s the last great designed M2 but I’d have to say I’d find it hard to believe it outperforms the Supra.

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[redspencer]

My bad, then yes, it’s the last great designed M2 but I’d have to say I’d find it hard to believe it outperforms the Supra.

It doesn't. Even the less powerful 2020MY GR Supra pulled quicker lap times than the M2 Competition in independent testing

 

[GMsuperfan]

It doesn't. Even the less powerful 2020MY GR Supra pulled quicker lap times than the M2 Competition in independent testing

So then what are we even discussing here? The numbers don’t lie. A last generation vehicle does not typically outperform a newer one and we are talking two performance oriented vehicles. If you need a bit more practicality and a back seat, sure, maybe it’s “better”. ?

 

[White Shadow]

The G87 is far better than the OG M2, the M2 Comp, the M2CS, and the MKV Supra. It's really not even close except maybe with the CS. But the S58 engine alone is enough reason to get a G87. It's in a different league entirely.

 

[iPan]

The G87 is far better than the OG M2, the M2 Comp, the M2CS, and the MKV Supra. It's really not even close except maybe with the CS. But the S58 engine alone is enough reason to get a G87. It's in a different league entirely.

Not really?

G87 M2 weighs 3,817 lbs.

Supra MkV weighs anywhere between 3,300 to 3,400 lbs (Mine was weighed right at 3,317 lbs).

Due to the higher weight alone, the G87's increase in horsepower over the MkV Supra is almost entirely negated if we are talking about straight line speed.

Then take into account that the B58 is currently tunable to a higher performance ceiling than the S58. The aftermarket has had more time to develop mods for the B58. Maybe that will eventually change, but for now the B58 has the advantage for tuning/modding.

GR Supra's wheelbase is 97 inches.
G87 M2 has a 108 inch wheelbase.

Weight+Wheelbase advantage means the Supra solidly beats the G87 in the handling department. The only time the G87 has a chance is on straight line pulls, and even then it's just barely.

 

[White Shadow]

Not really?

G87 M2 weighs 3,817 lbs.

Supra MkV weighs anywhere between 3,300 to 3,400 lbs (Mine was weighed right at 3,317 lbs).

Due to the higher weight alone, the G87's increase in horsepower over the MkV Supra is almost entirely negated if we are talking about straight line speed.

Then take into account that the B58 is currently tunable to a higher performance ceiling than the S58. The aftermarket has had more time to develop mods for the B58. Maybe that will eventually change, but for now the B58 has the advantage for tuning/modding.

GR Supra's wheelbase is 97 inches.
G87 M2 has a 108 inch wheelbase.

Weight+Wheelbase advantage means the Supra solidly beats the G87 in the handling department. The only time the G87 has a chance is on straight line pulls, and even then it's just barely.

The G87 when optioned with the carbon roof and carbon buckets is actually lighter than that. Manual transmission models also drop weight if that's your main concern. Either way, the engine makes up for any increase in weight as far as acceleration. And the larger tires do the same for handling. The S58 is severely underrated from BMW. This engine is easily putting out 500+ HP. It's faster than an M2 Comp. And an M2 Comp is faster than a MKV. Nothing barely about it. The G87 is superior just because of the S58 alone.

The MKV is far from a lightweight car. In all honesty, it's a bit porky for a smallish two seater car.

 

[White Shadow]

Then take into account that the B58 is currently tunable to a higher performance ceiling than the S58. The aftermarket has had more time to develop mods for the B58. Maybe that will eventually change, but for now the B58 has the advantage for tuning/modding.

Are you aware that they are already running low 9s on stock engine/transmission/turbos? Think about that for a moment. And with forged internals, the S58 is going to be an absolute monster when they really start making power. BMW definitely saved the best for last before moving to electrification.

 

[iPan]

The G87 when optioned with the carbon roof and carbon buckets is actually lighter than that. Manual transmission models also drop weight if that's your main concern. Either way, the engine makes up for any increase in weight as far as acceleration. And the larger tires do the same for handling. The S58 is severely underrated from BMW. This engine is easily putting out 500+ HP. It's faster than an M2 Comp. And an M2 Comp is faster than a MKV. Nothing barely about it. The G87 is superior just because of the S58 alone.

The MKV is far from a lightweight car. In all honesty, it's a bit porky for a smallish two seater car.

G87 with manual transmission and carbon roof and buckets is still only a 29.5 lb reduction over the non-carbon option. 7.5 lbs reduction for the roof and 11 lbs per carbon seat. That still puts it at roughly 3,787 lbs.

My manual MkV Supra is 3317 lbs with a full tank.

The S58 in the G87 is putting out 453 wheel horsepower. More like 520 hp at the crank.

The B58 in the Supra is at 382 wheel horsepower but is more like 450 hp at the crank.

BMW's advertised horsepower is always wheel horsepower. Both cars are underreported from factory. It's not a case of just the S58 being underrated. It's both engines being underrated.

The tires are marginally larger on the G87. Sure, the added 20mm up front and the 10mm added to the rear will help with handling, but it's not gonna completely negate the advantage of wheelbase AND nearly 500 lbs weight advantage that the Supra has.

Fronts are 9.5 x 19” with 275/35-19 tires
Rears are 10.5 x 20” with 285/30-20 tires

Supra 3.0
Fronts are 9 x 19” with 255/35-19 tires
Rears are 10 x 19” with 275/35-19 tires

Besides, tires and wheels are easy to swap. You can't easily shave 500 lbs off a car without significantly altering it. And you definitely can't change the wheelbase. So no, 10-20mm of wider tires doesn't really give the M2 an edge in this department. The Supra is just the better modding platform. The M2, while still very capable, is only slightly faster in a straight line, and that's about it.

 

[iPan]

Are you aware that they are already running low 9s on stock engine/transmission/turbos? Think about that for a moment. And with forged internals, the S58 is going to be an absolute monster when they really start making power. BMW definitely saved the best for last before moving to electrification.

Eventually I wouldn't be surprised if the S58 is developed more and starts beating modded B58's. But until that happens a modded B58 is still faster (for now).

And if we are talking about just chassis, ignoring the engine and transmission thrown in these cars, the Supra is just flat out the better track car. It's lighter and has a shorter wheelbase. It even has a slightly more balanced weight distribution vs the G87.

G87 52.1/47.9
Supra 50/50

All your argument is telling me, is that the G87 M2 might be worth looking into as a better straight line drag car, stock vs stock, or maybe minimal mods vs minimal mods on both cars.

I'd rather sacrifice a little bit of straight line speed so that I have better handling, but that's just me.

The G87 is a great car, but it's more like a muscle car than a true sports car.

Go calculate the power to weight ratio of both cars and you'll see that they're insanely close. That extra weight in the G87 really holds it back.

 

[bushido]

Eventually I wouldn't be surprised if the S58 is developed more and starts beating modded B58's. But until that happens a modded B58 is still faster (for now).

And if we are talking about just chassis, ignoring the engine and transmission thrown in these cars, the Supra is just flat out the better track car. It's lighter and has a shorter wheelbase. It even has a slightly more balanced weight distribution vs the G87.

G87 52.1/47.9
Supra 50/50

All your argument is telling me, is that the G87 M2 might be worth looking into as a better straight line drag car, stock vs stock, or maybe minimal mods vs minimal mods on both cars.

I'd rather sacrifice a little bit of straight line speed so that I have better handling, but that's just me.

The G87 is a great car, but it's more like a muscle car than a true sports car.

Go calculate the power to weight ratio of both cars and you'll see that they're insanely close. That extra weight in the G87 really holds it back.

wikipedia warrior, everyone

 

[White Shadow]

Go calculate the power to weight ratio of both cars and you'll see that they're insanely close. That extra weight in the G87 really holds it back.

Disagree. The G87 traps at 120 mph. That's a great indication of power and it's not close. It's a different league.

 

[AJRMKV]

Are you aware that they are already running low 9s on stock engine/transmission/turbos? Think about that for a moment. And with forged internals, the S58 is going to be an absolute monster when they really start making power. BMW definitely saved the best for last before moving to electrification.

both the B58 and S58 hit a reliability wall above 800whp without building.

reality is all 5 of the fastest modern BMWs are B58 powered.

for the downpipe and tune bros the S58 is way better though.

 

[White Shadow]

both the B58 and S58 hit a reliability wall above 800whp without building.

reality is all 5 of the fastest modern BMWs are B58 powered.

for the downpipe and tune bros the S58 is way better though.

The S58 seems to be fine holding up over 1000 HP so far. Have you been following the builds? This engine is fantastic and an absolute beast.

 

[AJRMKV]

The S58 seems to be fine holding up over 1000 HP so far. Have you been following the builds? This engine is fantastic and an absolute beast.

I have, the well tuned B58s also hold their own at that level. But by design, both motors have similar “safe” limits. I actually had the opportunity to ask Mikey about this.

At the moment, it’s a wash between the engines. At the highest levels they’re very similar in output.

however, the B58 is cheaper to build and maintain, and the Supra is currently the lightest platform that has a B58 or S58, even if it’s “heavier” than a 2 door should be, it’s starting point is still 400 lbs lighter than the lightest possible S58 configuration.

when it comes to track, I’m sure the S58 powered cars can perform, but it’s the Supra’s that are tearing up the bmw records all over the continent, not the S58 cars

for reference, my manual weighed in at 3270 when I did my first alignment.

 

[iPan]

The S58 seems to be fine holding up over 1000 HP so far. Have you been following the builds? This engine is fantastic and an absolute beast.

Now imagine if they added the S58 to the Supra.

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