MKV Supra vs BMW M2 Competition

[CantEven_Supra]

Originally, I thought maybe the top of the line Supra (Gazoo Racing branding) would have the M2 Comp engine which is a detuned M3/M4 S55 engine. The only reason why I think this might not happen is because the Supra and the Z4 are being co-developed and it wouldn't make sense for BMW to develop the Z4 without the S55 but Toyota gets developed with the S55 (again detuned like how the M2 Comp.) That's just not smart uses of R&D dollars when two companies are developing one platform to be shared but one companies goes their own way one something as critical as engine development while the other company doesn't.

So now I'm thinking maybe the top of the line Supra will have the new B58 engine which is supposed to make 382hp and 369lb-ft of torque. Although not staggering numbers, this would still be a very strong package considering all of the rumors floating around about how the Supra is supposed to weight about 3100 pounds whereas the M2 Comp weighs about 3600 pounds with 405 hp from the detuned S55 engine.

This might also allow the rumors to play out more correctly too because for the longest time, the Supra has been rumored to have an automatic transmission with no option for a manual. The B58 would definitely have an 8 speed auto whereas the S55 has a dual-clutch "automatic" transmission so unless Toyota is playing us with the use of "automatic," this might make more sense.

Have you combed through the other threads on the forums?

Pretty much your entire thought process has already been leaked and everything but officially confirmed by Toyota heh. Supra is to have a b58 design engine (rumored cgi, rumored toyota developed head) and documents released have already shown the zf 8hp (newest version) to be the transmission

I'm perfectly happy with the B58 variant motor. If its like the Z4 it'll have 380hp in the US due to no filter....closed deck design....sounds like good tuning potential to me.

The S55 is great but sounds horrible and there have been a good percentage (not substantial, but not unsubstantial at the same time) of engines stock and especially tuned that have suffered the spinning crank hub issue that leads to the motor pretty much toasting itself. I am not sure if they have fixed that design with the new motors going into the m2 comp and future m3/m4's but i have not read anything regarding a fix.

My guess is with Toyota having more control about what goes in their car, they would look over any bmw engine design and fix and tweak anything they didn't like. Maybe this is why there are rumors going around that the engine in the Supra isn't the exact b58, but rather a similar design.

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[halfmonkey]

Have you combed through the other threads on the forums?

Pretty much your entire thought process has already been leaked and everything but officially confirmed by Toyota heh. Supra is to have a b58 design engine (rumored cgi, rumored toyota developed head) and documents released have already shown the zf 8hp (newest version) to be the transmission

I'm perfectly happy with the B58 variant motor. If its like the Z4 it'll have 380hp in the US due to no filter....closed deck design....sounds like good tuning potential to me.

The S55 is great but sounds horrible and there have been a good percentage (not substantial, but not unsubstantial at the same time) of engines stock and especially tuned that have suffered the spinning crank hub issue that leads to the motor pretty much toasting itself. I am not sure if they have fixed that design with the new motors going into the m2 comp and future m3/m4's but i have not read anything regarding a fix.

My guess is with Toyota having more control about what goes in their car, they would look over any bmw engine design and fix and tweak anything they didn't like. Maybe this is why there are rumors going around that the engine in the Supra isn't the exact b58, but rather a similar design.

I have not read through hundreds of post so I guess my thinking is spot on. I think the B58 producing 382hp and 369lb-ft of torque will be plenty to move 3100lbs. If this is the case, then I am a little disappointed that it may not come with a manual or even dual-clutch auto transmission and maybe only a torque converter auto transmission as I don't see the Z4 being developed with a manual or dual clutch to be shared with Toyota.

 

[Nurburgring]

M2 Competiton = 302kW / 1572kg = 192kW/tonne

Official specs ended at 1658 Kg and 410hp (302kw) for the auto version = Each HP moves 4,0 kgs.

A 350hp, 1400 Kg (3100lbs) Supra would match this power/weight. It´ll be close.

 

[Guff]

1658kg!??!?! How did they manage to add that much weight to the car?? It boggles the mind, truly.

 

[Nurburgring]

///M badges are heavy

 

[Chikane]

1658kg!??!?! How did they manage to add that much weight to the car?? It boggles the mind, truly.

What really boggles my mind is how little difference between the weight of the manual and their auto. In some other cars it's significant here it's so small. I wonder where the weight really comes from because it didn't get a new interior or anything it's basically the same thing with a small refresh. I still think it's a nice car though.

 

[vb22]

$20k mark up!

 

[FirstStateCamber]

I heard you get free walnut blasting for life with that markup...

 

[Blupra]

I've build one on the configuration too, it came out to be $62,695 after destination I built it in Manual ofcourse

-Hockenheim silver $550
-Executive Package $1200 (Heated Steering, Adaptive LED Etc.)
-Moon Roof $1050

Is it just me or is this M2 closer to what people kinda wanted not including the badge,steep price and it's weight. I mean it's Manual, I6, 400/400 HP/TQ, RWD, has everything you need etc. It's not a bad car and package.

Hoping that the Supra will beat it in value : )

Agree, the M2 is basically what I was hoping the new supra would be, that's why I purchased one. Even though its likely 200-400 lbs heavier than the Supra, the backseat and manual tranny were a deal breaker for me. If Toyota made an identical car but branded it as a Toyota or Lexus, I would have purchased the Toyota product instead.

 

[Islindur]

it will kill M2

 

[DesmoSD]

it will kill M2

That's the older M2, not the new M2 Competition. How would it kill it?

 

[Islindur]

That's the older M2, not the new M2 Competition. How would it kill it?

M2C is same as M2 on Sachsenring in terms of laptime. Z4 m40i for now is just as fast as M2 on NRing. Also M2 performs on the 981 Cayman S level. M2C dosnet seem to be significiantly faster than M2 atm. Supra will be faster than Z4 coz of different suspension setup and more ridigity (roof). This car seems to perform on 718s level, which is clearly faster than M2.
Therfore I'm guessing Supra will be faster then M2 and M2C At worst it will be on the same level.

 

[DesmoSD]

M2C is same as M2 on Sachsenring in terms of laptime. Z4 m40i for now is just as fast as M2 on NRing. Also M2 performs on the 981 Cayman S level. M2C dosnet seem to be significiantly faster than M2 atm. Supra will be faster than Z4 coz of different suspension setup and more ridigity (roof). This car seems to perform on 718s level, which is clearly faster than M2.
Therfore I'm guessing Supra will be faster then M2 and M2C At worst it will be on the same level.

Valid points. Let's take Nürburgring Nordschleife for now and this is from fastestlaps.com. M2C has a higher top speed. We shall see though.

981 Cayman GT4: 7:42.00
718 Cayman S: 7:47.00
M2C: 7:52.36
981 Cayman S: 7:55.00
Z4 G29: 7:55.41
M2: 7:58.00

 

[Islindur]

Valid points. Let's take Nürburgring Nordschleife for now and this is from fastestlaps.com. M2C has a higher top speed. We shall see though.

981 Cayman GT4: 7:42.00
718 Cayman S: 7:47.00
M2C: 7:52.36
981 Cayman S: 7:55.00
Z4 G29: 7:55.41
M2: 7:58.00

What I found interesting is the new engine and more power in M2C didnt drop more time from NRing compared to N55. Also on short track the power difference seem negible. Needa see more laps from M2C to judge it better.
Interesting is also the fact Supra is supposed to be able to do 7.40-45 Ring despite its power, so It must have some srs cornering abilities to carry high speeds. We will see when its on the street, lets hope for the best

 

[DesmoSD]

What I found interesting is the new engine and more power in M2C didnt drop more time from NRing compared to N55. Also on short track the power difference seem negible. Needa see more laps from M2C to judge it better.
Interesting is also the fact Supra is supposed to be able to do 7.40-45 Ring despite its power, so It must have some srs cornering abilities to carry high speeds. We will see when its on the street, lets hope for the best

A 6 sec delta between the M2 and M2C is a pretty significant improvement. You're talking about with 7:40-45 with a stock MKV, not like the VLN Supra that had some mods, right? I dunno, we shall see.

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