Model code designation? / Why do we use the A90 name for the 5th Gen Supra?

[MA617M]

hmmmm disagree, mk5 indicates the generation adequately and that it is a Supra, without relying on a non existent chassis code. I think most of us salty previous gen Supra owners can at least let you guys have that one, don't push it with that a90 crap though

TBF, the mk1-5 etc is largely a USA thing. They've been referred by chassis codes elsewhere in the world for quite some time.

I'm a previous gen supra owner, (if you include my MA45 that's a shell, I have all five generations) I'm not salty

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[KahnBB6]

I’ve referred to previous Supras mostly as MKII, MKIII and MKIV but also as A70 and A80 in some circles. Whatever works.

Sub-variations of J29 is what appears in listings of the new model’s exploded parts diagrams so that is what it is but since Toyota decided to also officially market with the unofficial “A90” designation (which honestly looks and sounds better than “J29”) I’m happy to do it too.

It’s not like any other current vehicle has an “A90” chassis code to confuse it with.

Although Toyota could have made it much easier by just officially creating the A90 chassis code for the new Supra in the first place.

 

[Axix23]

When you guys say MK, it makes me think of the VW cars for some reason....

 

[DesmoSD]

Just to clarify for the OP, since thread some misinformation is starting to creep in. Neither J29 or A90 is on the VIN, Not sure how this was handled for the 86/BRZ, but it may be the result of these collaboration cars.

Personally, Mk1/2/3/4/5 seems a silly way to distinguish the car because it always has to be preceded by "Supra" since it is a generic term for car models/generations.

Toyota official way to refer to the generation of Supras is by A40/A60/A70/A80.... which yes, the A chassis (RWD Celica originally) denotes the Supra platform.

A90 fits better than J29 - so while not a chassis code, it is still better than Mk1/2/3/4/5

You Aussies drink from different water then the rest of the world. We think you guys have an accent and you guys think Americans have an accent.

Speaking of the 86/BRZ, the whole A90 campaign with the MKV Supra is similar to how Toyota adopted the while AE86 when developing the FT86/FR-S/86/BRZ. IMO, the 86/BRZ is nothing related to the Corolla GT-S/Trueno/Sprinter even with the bore and stroke at 86x86. Then it evolved to the "spirtual successor" b/s.

This is the current laziness within the Toyota corporation. Gone are the days of original, passionate engineering. It's just like Hollywood re-hashing old movies to relive the glory days and hard of work of the previous movies.

When you guys say MK, it makes me think of the VW cars for some reason....

Well it did originate from the UK and U.S

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_(designation)

 

[Jeff Lange]

Toyota used A90 as a way to market the car as a continuation of what various markets have referred to the previous cars as (A40/50/60/70/80).

Many manufacturers will have their own model code, their own frame number, and then a standardized VIN as per country or regional regulations.

Will you find A80 in a JZA80 VIN? No, you won't.

For the JZA80: JZA80-xxxxxxx is the frame number. JZA80[x]-xxxxx[x] is the model code. JT164JA80, JT2DD82A, JT2DE82A, JT2JA81J, JT2JA81L, JT2JA82J, or JT2JA82L are the VINs used.

For the 2019+ Supra, we are stuck with BMW notation and it varies from Toyotas a bit. The chassis series is J29, the model code is DB2x, DB4x, or DB8x, and the VIN usually carries some portion of the model code.

Because they are most descriptive and similar to Toyota's model codes, Toyota consistently uses the DBxx model codes throughout their documentation for the vehicle. That said, J29 encompasses the entire series and so is most appropriate when referring to the model from a broad perspective.

A90 is marketing mumbo-jumbo. A40 through A80 was the technical name for those chassis series, just as J29 is for the new Supra.

Jeff

 

[Jabba]

100% agreed Jeff. It may hurt some feelings, but it is, what it is.

This is the current laziness within the Toyota corporation. Gone are the days of original, passionate engineering. It's just like Hollywood re-hashing old movies to relive the glory days and hard of work of the previous movies.

I wouldn't say this exactly, but I get the point. At the very least the Supra is here, people are enjoying it, and Toyota is producing sporty cars again. Just not in the fashion many people envisioned.

 

[DesmoSD]

I wouldn't say this exactly, but I get the point. At the very least the Supra is here, people are enjoying it, and Toyota is producing sporty cars again. Just not in the fashion many people envisioned.

That's the minimalistic approach that I call laziness. The whole "just be happy that the Supra is here" and "Toyota is making sporty cars again". If this is the best that Toyota can do, I'm sorry but this is not good enough.

Meanwhile, Porsche just announced a 4.0L 718 GTS with a manual transmission on top of their expanded lineup of the Cayman and Boxster models. Where is the competitiveness Toyota... the hunger and that ability to push the envelope. I just don't see it anymore but for some reason, I still keep holding on to the possibility of being WOWED again...

 

[MA617M]

This is the current laziness within the Toyota corporation. Gone are the days of original, passionate engineering. It's just like Hollywood re-hashing old movies to relive the glory days and hard of work of the previous movies.

Sadly, it's not just Toyota, and it's not laziness - it's the global automotive climate. When was the last time a company, who's core business isn't sports cars - actually created a sports car using a new platform and new engine? Porsche bringing the NA 4.0 six back to their mid engine line up is awesome, but it's still an engine and platform that already exists in some revision.

The GR-Four Yaris is still an existing platform and a revision of an existing engine.

Everyone is collaborating on everything now, even passenger vehicles.

UItimately R35 and NSX are a product of the pre-GFC era - hence they are still being flogged with only revisions not major overhauls.

I wish Toyota had done it all in house too, but sadly that's the automotive world these days

 

[DesmoSD]

Sadly, it's not just Toyota, and it's not laziness - it's the global automotive climate. When was the last time a company, who's core business isn't sports cars - actually created a sports car using a new platform and new engine? Porsche bringing the NA 4.0 six back to their mid engine line up is awesome, but it's still an engine and platform that already exists in some revision.

The GR-Four Yaris is still an existing platform and a revision of an existing engine.

Everyone is collaborating on everything now, even passenger vehicles.

UItimately R35 and NSX are a product of the pre-GFC era - hence they are still being flogged with only revisions not major overhauls.

I wish Toyota had done it all in house too, but sadly that's the automotive world these days

I understand the global automotive shift but small game company Mazda is making their own I6 but Toyota can't? The new C8 LT2 engine is new.

The GR-Four Yaris isn't coming to the U.S. I again emphasize laziness with Toyota and their trucks and SUV's. The 4 Runner is going on since 2009ish? How about the Tundra? Still the same design...

Powered by an announced, but not detailed, new 3.0-liter inline 6-cylinder engine, the outlet reports that the engine will be debut as a part of Mazda’s new Skyactiv-X family. It also claims that the engine will be coupled to a mild-hybrid system, similar to what a number of luxury manufacturers are doing at the moment to both improve torque and fuel economy.

While little else is known about the forthcoming coupe, Best Car says Mazda is hoping to deliver the car with over 350 horsepower, which would put the car firmly in the Mustang, Camaro, and Supra territory. Pricing was also theorized, with the outlet saying that it would cost between, “5 million to 6 million yen.” At the current conversion rate, you’d be looking at around $45,000.

 

[YungMercureal]

I understand the global automotive shift but small game company Mazda is making their own I6 but Toyota can't? The new C8 LT2 engine is new.

The GR-Four Yaris isn't coming to the U.S. I again emphasize laziness with Toyota and their trucks and SUV's. The 4 Runner is going on since 2009ish? How about the Tundra? Still the same design...

Powered by an announced, but not detailed, new 3.0-liter inline 6-cylinder engine, the outlet reports that the engine will be debut as a part of Mazda’s new Skyactiv-X family. It also claims that the engine will be coupled to a mild-hybrid system, similar to what a number of luxury manufacturers are doing at the moment to both improve torque and fuel economy.

While little else is known about the forthcoming coupe, Best Car says Mazda is hoping to deliver the car with over 350 horsepower, which would put the car firmly in the Mustang, Camaro, and Supra territory. Pricing was also theorized, with the outlet saying that it would cost between, “5 million to 6 million yen.” At the current conversion rate, you’d be looking at around $45,000.

It's not about can or can't, it's about will or won't. If the BRZ/GT86 is any example, Toyota isn't willing to go all in on their own sports cars in the premium segment. The GR Yaris is alot easier and less risky to manufacture than a new Supra.

With Mazda, they're willing to commit to this project, and in that regard, good on them. I'm assuming they plan to put this engine in other models, because otherwise I'm betting they are losing money at a 45k price point.

I would've wanted a new Supra to be fully made by Toyota as well, but I don't think Toyota really wanted to themselves. They didn't want to spend millions on R&D for a new I6 and the assembly lines for it just to chuck it in one car, nor did they want to embark on a lengthy project. Toyota wasn't interested in getting into the supercar market like the R-35 and NSX.

Like MA was getting at, I don't think laziness is the best word, but more so reluctance or unwillingness, which is equally disappointing.

 

[Reppunkamui]

I understand the global automotive shift but small game company Mazda is making their own I6 but Toyota can't? The new C8 LT2 engine is new.

Even in the past, the JZ i6 was designed by Yamaha for Toyota, and that was 30 years ago, and no i6 since then. Perhaps they just accepted this engine design is not one of their strengths?

More importantly, why derail an A90 name question thread to Toyota bashing?

 

[Denton]

Even in the past, the JZ i6 was designed by Yamaha for Toyota, and that was 30 years ago, and no i6 since then. Perhaps they just accepted this engine design is not one of their strengths?

More importantly, why derail an A90 name question thread to Toyota bashing?

That's how these threads always go , some people seemingly enjoy using their energy for that.

Toyota could've coded this thing the BatMobile90 for all I could give a fuck.

 

[SupraFiend]

Welcome to supramkv.com, what else are we gonna do once we grow board of talking about chip tunes and bodykits?

Also, the whole A90 marketing is sort of representative of the BS Toyota pushed on us around the development of this car, so its kinda inevitable the conversation will go there.

Yamaha assisted, but again a collaboration, lets not act like Toyota can't make great motors on their own, or that the 2jz was only a good motor because Yamaha assisted.

MA617MA, no one said they expected Toyota to develop an all new chassis and engine for a new Supra. As I've mentioned, if not because of internal politics (haven't heard a reason that suggests it was anything other at this point) Toyota would have built a new Supra on a coupe platform with Lexus, as the Supra always has been done. And the new LS500 is out, with a new big HP twin turbo v6, and lexus has a decent turbo 4 (even in rwd, its in the RC300 now too). The whole no i6 or bust argument they made was more marketing BS, the consensus on this board here before the car launched is most of us would have been happy with a Toyota v6 over a BMW i6. I added the salty for you, obviously you're not as you have a mk5

But you're argument about companies these days whose core business isn't sports cars not doing anything cool is weak sauce. Midengined c8, Hellcat, Demon, 4th gen Miata (and its spin off), Type R Civic, new NSX, Kia Stinger, new Mustang, etc.

RE: the FRS/GT86 being a weak ass substitute with no connection to the real car, whoa there. First off, place and time. The FRS was Toyota's grand return, that was Akio going "hey you assholes, why don't we have a sports car on the market today? Fix that shit ASAP". They legitimately didn't have a rwd platform small and light enough to build such a car, they absolutely needed a partner to do anything quick. And time was the 2nd part, that project went from inception to on the market in record time. But then the Supra... totally different place and time, and the whole figuring out how to work with BMW took 2 years thing, meant a 7 year gestation. All of the catalysts that made the FRS venture happen didn't apply to the new Supra, and that's primarily why I'm so salty about it. This happened because the guy trying to get the next gen Z4 off the ground was at the car show where the FRS debuted, and he went hmm, maybe Toyota will pay for half of our car like this, and he made a pitch. Toyota went, sure lets make a car, and then later on they decided it would be the Supra. Sorry, Chris Harris was right, Toyota was callous with how they treated their Halo car and how this product came to fruition. We got what we got because having a new Supra to represent the brand wasn't a priority to them, if it had been they would have done it before and found a way to do it on their own.

Luckily, we got a pretty good car out of it just the same. Its just not a Toyota, lets not pretend it is. So full circle, don't call it an A90

 

[DesmoSD]

It's not about can or can't, it's about will or won't. If the BRZ/GT86 is any example, Toyota isn't willing to go all in on their own sports cars in the premium segment. The GR Yaris is alot easier and less risky to manufacture than a new Supra.

With Mazda, they're willing to commit to this project, and in that regard, good on them. I'm assuming they plan to put this engine in other models, because otherwise I'm betting they are losing money at a 45k price point.

I would've wanted a new Supra to be fully made by Toyota as well, but I don't think Toyota really wanted to themselves. They didn't want to spend millions on R&D for a new I6 and the assembly lines for it just to chuck it in one car, nor did they want to embark on a lengthy project. Toyota wasn't interested in getting into the supercar market like the R-35 and NSX.

Like MA was getting at, I don't think laziness is the best word, but more so reluctance or unwillingness, which is equally disappointing.

So it’s about will or won’t? So Toyota is unwilling. Toyota has always leveraged their engines in multiple models. Toyota could have done this but they were unwilling to work and use energy to build their own car aka lazy.



la·zi·ness
/ˈlāzēnəs/
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noun

1. the quality of being unwilling to work or use energy; idleness.

Even in the past, the JZ i6 was designed by Yamaha for Toyota, and that was 30 years ago, and no i6 since then. Perhaps they just accepted this engine design is not one of their strengths?

More importantly, why derail an A90 name question thread to Toyota bashing?

IIRC, the 2JZGTE was not designed by Yamaha, only early JZ engines. Toyota actually took the flaws of the early JZ and implemented them into the 2JZ.

It’s not derailing since it’s conjunction with the A90 name.

 

[Jeff Lange]

Vehicles using the 2JZ went into production less than 10 months after vehicles using the 1JZ. I think it's safe to assume the engines were developed at pretty much the same time.

I'm not aware of any flaws in the 1JZ design that were fixed in the 2JZ design.

Jeff

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