New rumors from C&D: 2020 Supra to get BMW inline six engine / B58 & S58 chat

If the new Supra does indeed come with a BMW motor, woud you still buy the car?


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Turbo GFX

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BMW interior, BMW engine, BMW co developed chassis. Engineered and tested in Germany. Being built by Magna Steyr... seems unbelievable for such an important vehicle to Toyota.

My question is exactly what is Toyota doing? design only?
Too early to say BMW engine I think.




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Supra93

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HKz

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wow for once..a more sensible article that recognizes it is more likely the Z5M and not the Supra but yet it still dabbles in the Supra/Z5 sharing platform bullshit....zzz...again, if the rumors are true and this goes through, then this will be the first platform that can interchange from roadster to 2+2 coupe but to me this is just another sign that so many of the sources this site has used have been completely fabricated.
 
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gymratter

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wow for once..a more sensible article that recognizes it is more likely the Z5M and not the Supra but yet it still dabbles in the Supra/Z5 sharing platform bullshit....zzz...again, if the rumors are true and this goes through, then this will be the first platform that can interchange from roadster to 2+2 coupe but to me this is just another sign that so many of the sources this site has used have been completely fabricated.
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HKz

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...should I also put a picture of the 240SX? Tell me who calls the 240SX and 300ZX as roadsters?


From wiki:


Roadster: A roadster was an open two-seater possibly with a frame that required actual assembly (i.e., not retracting) and separately installable soft side "window" panels – offering little protection from inclement weather and often requiring time-consuming apparently complicated installation. Examples range from the very first cars to the vintage Porsche Speedster introduced in 1955, and the Jaguar XK120 Roadster unveiled in 1948 right up to the most recent Porsche Spyders. For most in the U.S., a contemporary roadster is a two-seater convertible such as the Jaguar F-Type, BMW Z8, Aston Martin V8 Vantage, and Dodge Viper.


The 300ZX and 240SX are 2+2 coupes with a convertible variant. What this supposed new BMW/Toyota RWD platform is attempting to do is unprecedented. Someone please correct me.
 

gymratter

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roadster: noun
  1. an open-top automobile with two seats
...should I also put a picture of the 240SX? Tell me who calls the 240SX and 300ZX as roadsters?


From wiki:


Roadster: A roadster was an open two-seater possibly with a frame that required actual assembly (i.e., not retracting) and separately installable soft side "window" panels – offering little protection from inclement weather and often requiring time-consuming apparently complicated installation. Examples range from the very first cars to the vintage Porsche Speedster introduced in 1955, and the Jaguar XK120 Roadster unveiled in 1948 right up to the most recent Porsche Spyders. For most in the U.S., a contemporary roadster is a two-seater convertible such as the Jaguar F-Type, BMW Z8, Aston Martin V8 Vantage, and Dodge Viper.


The 300ZX and 240SX are 2+2 coupes with a convertible variant. What this supposed new BMW/Toyota RWD platform is attempting to do is unprecedented. Someone please correct me.
nissan-300zx-convertible-collector-car-29k-miles-one-off-special-order-red-tan-5.jpg
 
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HKz

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roadster: noun
  1. an open-top automobile with two seats


nissan-300zx-convertible-collector-car-29k-miles-one-off-special-order-red-tan-5.jpg
grasping at more straws.... :s you would be the first person to think the convertible 300ZX is a roadster. Just because it has no roof and has two seats doesn't mean jack shit..that convertible is a variant of a 2+2 not the other way around...I think Toyota needs some big time hype men like you in their stable.
 

Supra93

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V6 Vs Straight-Six: The Pros And Cons

Six-cylinder engines have nestled within some of the greatest cars of all time, so how does the V-format compare to the in-line alternative?

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Six-cylinder engines have featured in some heroic cars over the years, with stuff like the E-Type Jag, Toyota Supra and BMW M3 paving the way for the straight-six and the Honda NSX, R35 GTR and Lancia Stratos cementing the V6 into the automotive psyche. Sadly, the glory days of the straight six seem all but over, with turbocharged V6s still featuring as downsizing alternatives to V8s in today’s performance cars. So what are the advantages and shortcomings of each setup and why does the V6 now dominate?

Straight six advantages
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Firstly, like any in-line engine, straight sixes are a nice, simple design. With no cylinder offset, manufacturing costs are low and there is no need for separate heads or valvetrains like in a V-configuration. Instead of using double the amount of smaller camshafts, a DOHC I6 can simply use two longer camshafts to open and close its valves.

The simplicity of these engines is emphasised also when it comes to working on them, with the straight configuration allowing great access to all the spark plugs, leads and ancillaries for general maintanence, making the I6 an amateur mechanic’s friend.

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The I6 engine cycle
The biggest advantage however comes through engine balancing. Due to the normal firing order of a straight-six, the pistons move in-tandem with their mirror image on the other side of the engine block. So pistons 1 and 6 reciprocate, followed by 2 and 5 and finishing with 3 and 4. As pistons 1 and 6 reach top dead Centre, the other four pistons are evenly spaced at 120 degrees and 240 degrees respectively around the engine cycle, meaning that the reciprocating forces balance each other out. This makes a smooth-revving engine for which units like the S50 and RB26 have become famous for.

Straight-six disadvantages
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The RB26 is a straight-six legend
Unfortunately, there are numerous reasons why the straight six is all but dead. Packaging has always been an issue, as the extra two cylinders when compared to an I4 means that mounting the engine in a transverse configuration is very difficult. If mounted sideways, there usually isn’t enough room for the size of transmission and drivetrain needed to use an I6 in a front-wheel drive setup. And with manufacturers looking to create powertrains that can be shared across as many chassis as possible, the elongated I6 just doesn’t quite cut it.

The long engine and its components also lack rigidity when compared to a more compact engine setup. The long camshafts and crankshafts naturally try to very slightly flex during rotation, along with the engine block lacking the stiffness of a V6 equivalent. The dimensions of the I6 also don’t help it in terms of the car’s centre of gravity, with rotating and static mass sitting slightly higher in the engine bay than other more compact engine options.

V6 advantages
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Found normally in 60 or 90-degree configurations, V6s can still be found in numerous performance cars, with the art of turbocharging creating upwards of 500 horsepower from the likes of the MY17 GTR and the latest tech-fest NSX. V6s have also been used in much more docile platforms like my own Mondeo ST200, so one of the largest plus points is the engine’s versatility.

Due to its much more stocky, compact nature, it is capable of being shoehorned into numerous engine bays within a manufacturer’s fleet, thus cutting huge costs from having to perform R&D on other engine options.


The Lancia Stratos borrowed the Dino V6 from Ferrari. Video via YouTube channel 19Bozzy92
The precious space offered up by the neat package therefore opens the door for forced induction, leaving room for turbochargers to nestle deep within the engine bay. Front-wheel drive setups can also utilise a V6 as a powertrain, which can lead to some truly epic performance bargains like the MG ZS180 which used a Rover KV6 and the Mazda MX-6 which squeezed in a 2.5-litre V6 in its second generation. So the V6 allowed car companies to easily produce a performance variant of their usual boring four-cylinder cars without having to drastically change chassis dimensions or engine bay organisation.

V6 disadvantages
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Although it may feature the same number of cylinders as its in-line brother, the V6 does not have the same intrinsic balance. Effectively made up of two in-line three-cylinders stuck together, the V-style engine needs balancing shafts that use specially placed weights to counteract the unwanted inertia created by the reciprocating engine. Without these balancing shafts, large vibrations would travel through the crankshaft and offset the efficiency of the reciprocation.

The engine balance is worsened as displacement increases (longer piston stroke) and an increase in bore size (increasing the mass of the piston). The counterweights needed therefore add complexity to the engine’s design and manufacture, increasing overall costs. Naturally a DOHC V6 must have four camshafts and potentially 24 valves in total, so the complexity of the additional valvetrain components needed to fill each cylinder head further increases the complexity of this engine setup which can make working on V6s an intimidating prospect for a less-experienced petrolhead.


There's nothing quite like a DTM-tuned Busso V6! Video via YouTube channel NM2255 Car HD Videos
Although many car guys have been mourning the lack of modern straight six engines, it seems that times may be about to change. In recent weeks, Mercedes has come forward with a new in-line six that will use a 48V battery to power the ancillary components and help the powertrain. And even with this possible rebirth of the I6, remember that BMW specifically made its name with four-cylinder engines through the original M3 and 2002.

In the I6’s absence, the V6 has taken over and will probably be around for some time to come. But with the calibre of cars utilising the V-format currently, it’s hard to complain with the performance that they can offer with few drawbacks.

Which engine format do you prefer? Do you want to see the straight-six returned to the engine bays of the current crop of performance cars? Comment below with your thoughts!
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/v6-vs-straight-six-the-pros-and-cons/
 

Levi

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In fact, there is no perfect internal combustion engines, there is only a better or worse one depending on the needs. The perfect engine is not internal combustion, but brushless electric motor. This one however comes with disadvantages at the energy side (battery).
 

gymratter

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rumors of using BMW's I6 still continues.

Rumours suggest the new Supra will come fitted with a straight-six engine from BMW's powertrain stable, forgoing the four-cylinder engines of lesser Z4s. Whatever the engine the Supra's ace card should come in the form of hybrid-electric tech to boost performance.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/toyota/88119/new-2018-toyota-supra-fresh-spy-shots-are-best-look-yet

It remains unknown just what powertrain will power the Supra. It's possible that the Supra could use a turbocharged inline-six from BMW. We've also heard rumors of a hybrid setup that would pair a turbocharged four-cylinder gas engine with an electric motor at each axle. Whatever the case, expect the Supra to be quick.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/spied-2019-toyota-supra-sheds-camo-93412.html
 

Craigy

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Aside from the author's speculation, the actual Toyota exec quote in the autoexpress article seems to nix the likelihood of any near-term hybrid sportscar.

When asked if Toyota’s quest to have a hybrid or plug-in hybrid vehicle in every market sector would extend to sports cars, Toyota Europe president and CEO Johan van Zyl said: “I would imagine that in the future that will definitely happen." “We already have some sporting models with hybrid powertrains on the Lexus side. But on the Toyota side, I think we will find that if we can have a World Endurance Championship racing car with hybrid technology, it can happen on a road car.”

He added: “I do not have any doubt whatsoever that in the longer-term future there will be a real Toyota sports model using electrification.”


Imagining in the future, and not doubting possibilities in the longer-term future does not sound like we have an upcoming planned model currently in testing.
 

gymratter

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Here's The Differences Between A V6 And Straight-Six Engine


Just a few months ago it seemed like the straight-six engine was all but dead. Abandoned by the Germans and Japanese for stuff like, well, a V6 engine. Jaguar and Mercedes are saving the straight-six this year, so now is a perfect time to go over the all of the differences between six-cylinder engines.

I’ve personally owned a straight-six packaged nicely in a E46 BMW 325ci, which I greatly miss all of the time. I have sweaty dreams about it. But is a V6 a better engine? The fine folks over at CarThrottle have made this easy with a handy video and some very nifty animations.

The benefits of a straight-six is its simplicity by design, typically easier access for general maintenance, and THAT BALANCE. Every straight-six car review ever seemingly has the driver measuring the engine balance with their butt, proclaiming how ~smooth~ the engine idles and the uniform revving. Yea, that’s the good stuff.

Packaging is a big issue with the straight-six, though. It’s just kind of hard to fit in cars, can throw off the center of gravity, is nearly impossible for front-wheel-drive setups, and loses some rigidity over other engine options due to being a little stretched out and skinny.

V6 engines litter the lot of current supercars, including the Nissan GT-R and new Acura NSX. It’s more compact, making it easier to snuggle in some turbocharging, works better for front-wheel-drive applications, and makes it easier to fill a vehicle lineup with the same basic engine layout. Copy/Paste.

But V6 engines do have a more complicated design, needing balancing shafts, more components, and their application across entire lineups and in front wheel drive cars also arguably makes car companies get a little boring.

So who you got? Toyota Supra and BMW M3 or Honda NSX and GT-R?
 

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