Shoulda just used the V35A-FTS from the LS500

Discussion in 'B48 4-Cyl Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, Bolt-Ons' started by halfmonkey, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. SupraFiend

    SupraFiend Well-Known Member

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    Well a giant duuuuuh to everything you just said, doesn't disprove my point at all. Where is the benefit today of the billions they dumped into that project? Where's the trickle down tech? Ohhh wow, we have cars with LCD gauges now, like that wouldn't have happened anyways, every single manufacturer today has a digi dash. Where's the super light weight carbon fiber loomed Lexusi we should have from that investment in carbon technology? Oh wait, today's Lexi are heavier then ever.

    My point quite simply, since you obviously missed it, is if they were going to dump a billion dollars or so down the drain, they could have at least done it on a new in house developed Supra and actually rewarded their legions of loyal fans. The car might have even turned a profit one day, but even if it hadn't it would have brought some love and prestige back to the brand and wow an entire a new generation of future car buyers.

    But yeah yeah, I know, I've said it enough around here myself, whats done is done and our whining about it won't change a thing (blame Austrailian of the North, he started it).
     
  2. PerformanceSound

    PerformanceSound Well-Known Member

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    #32 Jan 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
    What on earth are you saying son? My point (which you failed to understand) is that there never would be a chance to recoup millions of dollars from an in-house Toyota. You may believe that, but you stand alone my friend. They spent that money on an Lexus because they can recoup that money from Lexus cars. You still don’t get it, Toyota is no longer Toyota/Lexus of the 90’s where they can spend millions on developing profitable sports cars. A $100k in-house Supra would not sell in this economic climate. I don’t know why you are still hung up on that?...because that’s what it would cost had all the LFA’s efforts gone into an in-house Supra.

    If you think no tech trickled down or will trickle down from the LFA to other Lexus cars, you know nothing about Lexus.
     
  3. SupraFiend

    SupraFiend Well-Known Member

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    Son? Please, I've been into Supras since the mk4 first came out.

    When I was talking about dumping billions, I was referring to the development money they put into the LFA in the 2000s, not the current venture. Your point is great and all, but you're still missing mine. The LFA lost money hand over fist, and I'm sure they started the project not expecting to turn a profit on it, it was driven by other goals (as you've hinted at). But it was a dumb decision and use of their sports car engineers. They would have been much better served developing a new Supra to compete with the Z car of the time (iow not a 100k Supra, I mentioned nothing of the sort). You are viewing that project from today's perspective with the relationship between Toyota and Lexus as it is currently. That project was started in Japan when Lexus was still just a badge swap for foreign markets to compete better with companies like BMW, it was all Toyota from the get go. I'm hardly the only one here who would have preferred they gave us a new Supra in the 2000s over the LFA.
     
  4. Australian of The North

    Australian of The North Well-Known Member

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    #34 Feb 3, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
    [content removed]
     
  5. kona61

    kona61 Well-Known Member

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    Eh, I would like to point out there is a Regera/Chiron killer from Toyota... the GR Super Sport.
     
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  6. PerformanceSound

    PerformanceSound Well-Known Member

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    This B58 will impress even the most hardcore 2JZ fanatics. Patience people, have some patience.
     
  7. SupraFiend

    SupraFiend Well-Known Member

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    Sure there was. Why do you think Toyota decided to start Scion in the 2000s? Because the average age of their buyers was frighteningly high, not exactly a surprise when you kill off all of your sports cars and the most exciting thing in your lineup is the Echo RS hatchback (which the US didn't even get, superseded by the Yaris). Nissan, Mazda and Honda all saw the value of developing a new RWD sports car in that era. Again, my point is that if they were going to invest millions to billions into a new car that was bound to loose money (which the LFA totally did), then they should have put it into delivering a new Supra appropriate for the time. We would have been given something like the 350z, which would have done wonders for the brands image and gotten another generation of buyers interested in sports cars and Toyotas in general. Toyota of the last 20 years has super dropped the ball when it comes to playing the long game with their brand. I shouldn't have to give millennials or younger a history lesson every time I tell one why I'm super into Toyotas.

    Also back to Australian's point, the alternative to a joint venture on the mk5 was not going it alone, it was doing what they always did, building it off a shared luxury coupe platform. Why this car wasn't developed with a shared platform as the RC350/RC300 I will never understand.
     
  8. Jeff Lange

    Jeff Lange Well-Known Member

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    OT, but they were pretty cool though.

    IMG_0296.jpg
    IMG_0251.jpg
    IMG_9320.jpg
    IMG_0198.jpg

    (My first real FWD project, still ongoing...)

    Jeff
     
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  9. SupraFiend

    SupraFiend Well-Known Member

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    I liked the look of those and the size, but the RS was just a trim option, no actual performance improvements. The car had a twist beam rear axle and a sort of hopeless motor. There was the 1st gen Matrix XRS and Corolla XRS in that era too and they both had good motors that the base cars didn't, but man were they ugly. 2nd Gen Matrix XRS looked alright but just had the 2.4 from the Camry. Was pretty dire days for Toyota enthusiasts till the FRS came out (and you couldn't even get it in NA with a Toyota badge back then).

    You doing a swap in that thing Jeff? A Blacktop 4ag or 2zz would be pretty sweet in one of those.
     
  10. Jeff Lange

    Jeff Lange Well-Known Member

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    The RS was a lame package in North America, it's true. It's actually technically an LE grade with an RS package. In Europe and Japan it was a proper grade that included different suspension, rear disc brakes, larger wheels, the body pieces and the larger engine (with better gearing and an LSD). All North American models had the larger engine, which wasn't really anything to write home about, but the 1NZ is a workhorse for sure. It's gone essentially unchanged for 20 years.

    The 1st gen Corolla/Matrix XRS also suffered from the torsion beam rear suspension, but had the 2ZZ which was nice. The second generation Matrix XRS at least got proper independent rear suspension (the Corolla stuck with the axle beam unfortunately). The 2AZ was, again, nothing to write home about just like the 1NZ, but it was torquey which worked well with the ~2900 lbs weight of the Corolla. That said, the Echo/Yaris/Vitz/etc. are/were quite cheap and continued on the non-independent rear suspension from the earlier models they replaced (Starlet, etc.).

    You're right though, they were dire days for Toyota enthusiasts, especially in North America. The MR2 Spyder has gotten a bit of a bad rap from some, but honestly I found it to be a joy to drive. In my mind, that was all Toyota had going on in the 2000's, and it ended in 2005 - and was never sold in Canada.

    Last year my focus was primarily on shifting, suspension (coilovers, TRD bushings) and chassis bracing. I also did a TRD exhaust, lightweight flywheel and a 2ZZ clutch. Running Dunlop ZIII's tires for the summer. Swapped in larger front brakes and changed out the the rear for discs. Some cosmetics have come in as well (Japanese RS bumpers, LED tail lights), and I have a Blitz supercharger and a TRD Turbo ECU that I will be tossing in there shortly. I also picked up a 20V C56 transmission and will be swapping that in along with a helical LSD in the next few months.

    The chassis is extremely capable at this point, better than I expected to be honest. It really needs the added power and gearing. Looking forward to getting that stuff installed.

    Jeff
     
  11. SupraFiend

    SupraFiend Well-Known Member

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    Very cool.

    The last get Celica and the MRS are both fantastic cars, and wicked quick on the autox course. The MRS in particular once you do the super simple and so obvious Toyota shoulda done it 2zz upgrade. Both have come into their own more so after they went out of production, but they were both gone by about 2005 IIRC. 06 - 11 there was... the RS and those XRSs and nothing else, nothing even resembling a sports car.

    Did Toyota actually de-evolve the Corolla to a torsion bar? My wife's 98 (98-02 gen) has an awesome independent McPherson setup. Those are fantastic little cars, they were the last good Corolla made, depending on how you feel about the new one. The new Corolla Hatch is pretty cool though, I want to try one. It will likely be the car that replaces our 98 at some point. Its about to roll over 200k kms though and needs absolutely nothing so we'll see if\when that ever happens lol.
     
  12. Jeff Lange

    Jeff Lange Well-Known Member

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    The 2ZZ should have 100% been in the MR for sure. Not sure what happened there.

    The FWD Corollas were all IRS until 2003. From 2003-onwards they swapped it out to the torsion beam design. The Corolla iM/Hatchback brought back the IRS, and they're pretty nice. The Corolla kind of went on a bit of a windy road of good/bad from 1998-onwards. The 1ZZ was not a good engine in my opinion and spoiled the North American 98-02 Corollas. Sticking with the 7A would have been the way to go, but alas. The 03-08 was worse (specifically the 05-08 with their Delphi ECU issues). My only problem with the 2009-2013 really is the rear suspension, the rest of the car is pretty solid. The 2ZR was a much needed improvement over the 1ZZ. The 2014-onwards (excluding the hatch) did nothing to improve mechanically (aside from the CVT - you can decide if that's an improvement or not), while looking uglier. The interior was improved (marginally), but that's about it.

    In terms of decent Corollas, the new Hatchback is really what I've been waiting for. The M20A-FKS, a 6-speed manual and a proper suspension setup plus reasonable proportions. I like it.

    I'll stick with my Lexus for a while though.

    Jeff
     
  13. SupraFiend

    SupraFiend Well-Known Member

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    Yeah its decent. It doesn't look as good as I hoped in person, the design is a little awkward from some angles, but probably a little better then the iM, which was a huge step up too.

    I like our 1zz, no complaints beyond the obvious piston drain hole debacle. I went out of my way to find a low mileage one that had super regular oil changes and managed to get one that didn't burn oil. I've kept it on synthetic and its consumption hasn't changed since we got it, put almost 40k kms on it now over 4 years. I wish I had the vvti version but I had 1 week to find a low miles LE of that gen that wasn't a boring color and didn't burn oil, that's a bit of a challenge.

    The problem with the 09 to 13 is it isn't even remotely a Corolla, its a bloody camry. Our gen is the last small, nimble Corolla sedan. I just recently got a first gen 4cycl Tacoma too, for the exact same reasons. Stash away your Toys that were designed in the 90s, its all downhill from there.
     
  14. Mk5nut

    Mk5nut Well-Known Member

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    Busso v6 begs to differ. The best sounding v6 ever. Its off topic though.
     

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