Supra reliability with a BMW drivetrain

halfmonkey

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Say what you will about the styling, pricing, hp, auto only, bmw sourced interior, etc..... I frankly applaud Toyota for even making the Supra happen. I actually like the design. Of course there are things I would have changed such as making a manual or at least a dual clutch but it is what it is. One thing that has me concerned though will be the reliability of the b58 engine. I used to own an e90 335 and even though the n54 was a beast engine, I definitely had a ton of problems/repairs with that engine. I normally keep my cars for a long time and I only kept my e90 until 125k miles, which I guess in BMW speak is like keeping a Toyota for 400k miles.

I haven't read anything about Toyota focusing some of their R&D on the reliability of the engine but I would have to assume that that was one of their focuses when doing 50 year (ok I'm exaggerating) R&D for the Supra and the B58 engine. We all know that Toyotas are regarded as one of the most if not the most reliable car manufacturers so I would think that they would breakdown the B58 and develop any weakness that they find to meet Toyota benchmarks.

Things that went wrong on my N54 include high pressure fuel pump, low pressure fuel pump, water pump, thermostat, oil filter housing, some transmission mechatronic sleeve, head gasket, injectors, ignition coils, intake build up(required walnut blasting), exhaust flap. This is just a list of what I remember and it doesn't include the other problems with other parts of the car too like cracked windshield rubber trim, both rear windows mechanism breaking, among many others. My e90 was purchased new in Nov 2007 but it had way more problems than all of my previous cars put together. Not to mention that it's the only car to have left me stranded on the side of a freeway, not once but twice.

Frankly, the Supra name is a dream car for me and I'm considering this car but it won't be until at least 4 years down the road to see how the car holds up with real world driving situations and reported fixes and failures. I guess if this car doesn't work out, I can hope that the IS F is reborn or the S2000 is reborn. If not, let's see what Lexus does with the RC F and worse case scenario, if I stick with the Supra with a BMW drivetrain, I might as well consider the M2 Competition.
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Kleanish

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I would look at it from a simple point of view. Given the same parts, and what? at least two or three years of development? who would you put your money on? Toyota or BMW?

The Supra may (keyword may, I believe they went to the moon and back pushing these parts to their breaking point) not be up to the usual Toyota reliability standards, but I would bet it is more reliable than the Z4 or M2C.
 

Louis110

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I'd say reliability is the elephant in the room that no auto journalist is willing to talk about. Is the current Z4 significantly different than the previous model? We can probably get a gauge for failure rates off the previous Z4.

Maybe a 2J swap after the warranty period is done to extend the life of the car ;) I do wonder how a swap like that would affect all the electronics on the car though (safety aids, digital cluster, sport mode vs normal mode, electronic diff, etc).
 

Kaizen

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I'd say reliability is the elephant in the room that no auto journalist is willing to talk about. Is the current Z4 significantly different than the previous model? We can probably get a gauge for failure rates off the previous Z4.

Maybe a 2J swap after the warranty period is done to extend the life of the car ;) I do wonder how a swap like that would affect all the electronics on the car though (safety aids, digital cluster, sport mode vs normal mode, electronic diff, etc).
Yes reliability needs to be investigated more. I hope Toyota had a hand in developing or revising the B58.
 

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As mentioned in other threads, the B58 is a clean slate redesign over the previous N-Series motor. Toyota has been working with BMW since 2012 on this project and has spent considerable money and time breaking down powertrain components and sending them back to Toyota R&D facilities in Japan for testing and failure analysis.

I think its safe to say that a company like Toyota hasn't forgotten that it has a reputation for reliability.
 

DesmoSD

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Guff

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The record for a MKIV NA was about 520,590 (original w/out any major work) and some turbos in the 300K+ range. I want to remain optimistic but when the OP mentions these issues, we'll be lucky if it can get past 50K w/out any issues.

On a side note, my second gen Tacoma 4x4 has 260K miles and still running strong.

https://www.motor1.com/news/78337/a-toyota-supra-in-tennessee-has-racked-up-520000-miles/
4317f3b2-toyota-supra-csp-4.jpg
While the B58 is wayyyy better than the old N54/N55, there is no way it'll match to 2JZ standards as far as both durability and reliability are concerned. JZs were dead simple compared to motors nowadays, and the more complex things get, the more points of failure there are. I'm interested to see how well the new Lexus Turbo engines will hold up going forward, especially the V35A and whatever motor ends up in the LF-1 SUV and LCF, because those things are chock full of tech.
 
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halfmonkey

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While the B58 is wayyyy better than the old N54/N55, there is no way it'll match to 2JZ standards as far as both durability and reliability are concerned. JZs were dead simple compared to motors nowadays, and the more complex things get, the more points of failure there are. I'm interested to see how well the new Lexus Turbo engines will hold up going forward, especially the V35A and whatever motor ends up in the LF-1 SUV and LCF, because those things are chock full of tech.
I'm wondering if Toyota/Lexus has "resisted" going turbo for so long even when the entire industry is going turbo even on some cars that have the purist of purist such as the F-150 going from v-8 to v-6 turbos because of the fact that they've been developing their turbos to meet their quality and reliability standards.

I haven't heard of any major problems with the v-6 turbo in the LS500 but then again, I'm not following that car like I would a Supra. I do know though if it did have some major problems, it would more than likely be all over the internet like the BMW N54 hpfp failures. I had two instances of that failure on my car and the first time, it go replaced with a refurbished hpfp. Only on the second time, once they actually figured out what the problem was, did they replace it with a fixed version along with software update.
 

A70TTR

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as someone that has been working on turbo tech, a large component of it has to do with heat, added complexity, and overall reliability. those items for sure affect the decision to switch over, but given fuel economy and emissions targets I think we will start to see a shift more and more.
 

MT6

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Toyota probably tested many BMW parts, and they all failed. The end.
 

A70TTR

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the Toyota engineers that I spoke with said many components tested met Toyota targets, but that there were those that didnt. those that didnt were sent back to BMW with failure analysis and changes were made. the updated components were then tested again until they met targets.

Toyota does not compromise on quality, which is why the BRZ is Subaru's most reliable vehicle by far.
 
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halfmonkey

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the Toyota engineers that I spoke with said many components tested met Toyota targets, but that there were those that didnt. those that didnt were sent back to BMW with failure analysis and changes were made. the updated components were then tested again until they met targets.

Toyota does not compromise on quality, which is why the BRZ is Subaru's most reliable vehicle by far.
Since you seem to be most connected, I'll take your word for it and like I mentioned, I really want to like the Supra and really want to buy one. I'm going to wait about 4 years before I do though and hopefully, by then we'll know how reliable the B58 is. Maybe even the GRMN Supra will be released by then too and I'll have that to consider as well.

If the B58 turns out to be reliable, I can get behind the Supra because I loved my e90 when I had it but the reliability issues drove me away. The way the engine performed was fantastic and if the B58 is anything like the N54, I would expect nothing less in that sense even with "just" 335hp but with 365 lb-ft of torque.
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