So how much ft/nm of torque does the clutch of the manual supra hold ? Need to upgrade?

[Funkjaw]

Food for thought:

The new 2026 M2-CS with 523-hp will not be coming with a manual because BMW said their current manual drive train is not reliable at the increased 523-hp. Assuming it's the same ZF S6-53 found in our Supra, that should tell you a little something about where it loses reliability.

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[BMWAF]

I have a feeling that the people blowing up clutches either don't know how to drive a manual or they abuse them with excessive heat, or crap parts or poor workmanship at installation from factory.

This. If it's not Friday built, It's most likely just a skill issue.

 

[lucky phil]

Clutches are the most notoriuosly user sensative component in

This. If it's not Friday built, It's most likely just a skill issue.

Clutches are the most notoriously sensitive components to user input in automotive engineering. One user can get 200,000 miles out of a clutch and the next 2000 miles. That's why manufacturers won't warranty them and forums are full of people sooking about their clutches failing.
If you research CDV patents some are listed as anti clutch abuse devices. No surprise there for manufacturers.
Phil

 

[razorlab]

Food for thought:

The new 2026 M2-CS with 523-hp will not be coming with a manual because BMW said their current manual drive train is not reliable at the increased 523-hp. Assuming it's the same ZF S6-53 found in our Supra, that should tell you a little something about where it loses reliability.

The ZF 8HP51 auto is also rated for 510nm/376tq and we all know plenty of owners pushing MUCH more than that.

 

[Topperino]

I've been trying to track this down myself, with the hope that the OE clutch parts have some published torque capacity, maybe by cross referencing the BMW G29 Z4 manual equipped car or any B58 manual car, but no luck so far.

Assuming the powetrain engineers did their job, the clutch torque limits should be less than the trans itself to make it the weak link.

Found a reference from ZF (see below) I am pretty sure the Supra's gearbox has a rated capacity similar to the GS6-53dz, 600 N*m or 440 lb*ft. I have no idea what safety margins are built into the clutch and trans themselves so its like comparing apples to oranges.

I have a feeling that the people blowing up clutches either don't know how to drive a manual or they abuse them with excessive heat, or crap parts or poor workmanship at installation from factory. Mine grabs as good as it did from day one. I dont abuse mine but I'm not nice to it either.

Quick vid of a launch.


Couple references:
Notes on trans in the Supra
https://bimmerlife.com/2022/04/30/t...ing-a-manual-transmission-but-what-about-bmw/

Torque limits for trans
https://web.archive.org/web/20181011013856/https://www.zf.com/products/en/cars/products_29322.html

Note the S6-53dz internals in the Supra's trans
https://www.automaticchoice.com/en/gs6l50tz-manual-transmission-catalogue?page=4#5202

Thanks man I appreciate the effort. I also suspect that a lot of people that blow up the clutch (especially at stock power) maybe shifted wrong ? But idk, don't want to accuse people of not knowing how to drive stick.

 

[AJRMKV]

Well maybe I explained it wrong but I meant that in Germany you have to get every. single. change. documented and approved by the authorities. After like 500 hp (with the supra, its % based off of stock power) they deny the approval and your car becomes street illegal, you lose insurance etc. There are specific tuning task forces from the police that will inspect your car, they will read your OBD port and collect your ECU for further inspection.

So they can't limit your HP on a technical level but punish every misconduct so hard that you basically stay inside the limits.

This is a new form of Naziism that I was not prepared for.

 

[razorlab]

This is a new form of Naziism that I was not prepared for.

Pretty sure Germany would disagree with that claim. You know, given their ACTUAL HISTORY, they tend to be a wee bit sensitive about things like that.

It's Technischer Überwachungsverein if I am not mistaken, basically their form of inspections, just like we have at varied levels here in the United States.

https://benz.carlinkitfactory.com/all-you-need-to-know-about-germanys-tuv-a-comprehensive-guide/

Given all that, people seem to forget that driving is not a right, it's a privilege.

 

[AJRMKV]

Clutches are the most notoriuosly user sensative component in

Clutches are the most notoriously sensitive components to user input in automotive engineering. One user can get 200,000 miles out of a clutch and the next 2000 miles. That's why manufacturers won't warranty them and forums are full of people sooking about their clutches failing.
If you research CDV patents some are listed as anti clutch abuse devices. No surprise there for manufacturers.
Phil

Pretty sure Germany would disagree with that claim. You know, given their ACTUAL HISTORY, they tend to be a wee bit sensitive about things like that.

It's Technischer Überwachungsverein if I am not mistaken, basically their form of inspections, just like we have at varied levels here in the United States.

https://benz.carlinkitfactory.com/all-you-need-to-know-about-germanys-tuv-a-comprehensive-guide/

Given all that, people seem to forget that driving is not a right, it's a privilege.

Do they have this in the US?

"There are specific tuning task forces from the police that will inspect your car, they will read your OBD port and collect your ECU for further inspection. "

 

[razorlab]

Do they have this in the US?

"There are specific tuning task forces from the police that will inspect your car, they will read your OBD port and collect your ECU for further inspection. "

Yes. California reads CVN off the DME and if it doesn't match a unchanged OEM ROM, off to state ref you go and your car is looked over with a fine toothed comb.

There are other states the do the same (MA is one of them) but don't have the equivalent of state ref yet.

 

[rottmore]

 

[Funkjaw]

Do they have this in the US?

"There are specific tuning task forces from the police that will inspect your car, they will read your OBD port and collect your ECU for further inspection. "

Yup, a lot of states (31 to be exact) have regulations surrounding vehicle emissions - although California is by far the most strict (and actually why I moved out of that state).
The top 5 most strict states for vehicle regulations are:

1. California
2. New York
3. Massachusetts
4. New Jersey
5. Maryland

Germany would rank similarly to California if it were a US state. On one hand they allow some modifications, on the other hand just read Phil's tidbit of information.

 

[lucky phil]

Yup, a lot of states (31 to be exact) have regulations surrounding vehicle emissions - although California is by far the most strict (and actually why I moved out of that state).
The top 5 most strict states for vehicle regulations are:

1. California
2. New York
3. Massachusetts
4. New Jersey
5. Maryland

Germany would rank around #3 if it was a US state.

The Germans have the dreaded TUV inspection every 2 or 3 years depending on the vehicle. It's totally draconian. So you arrive for your TUV on your bike and it might be say 20 years old. Everything on the bike needs to be as it left the factory OR any mods at all have a TUV certificate, including the tyres. If the bike wasn't sold with those tyres and the bike is fitted with the latest greatest new tyres of the correct size and rating but no approved paperwork for that particular bike then FAIL. Different mirrors? Fail, different foot pegs or brake and clutch levers, fail.
As you can imagine tyre manufacturers and world aftermarket manufacturers aren't necessarily going to go through an expensive TUV certification for older vehicles or even for low volume sales of modern vehicles. The Germans!
Phil

 

[Funkjaw]

The German have the dreaded TUV inspection every 2 or 3 years depending on the vehicle. It's totally draconian. So you arrive for your TUV on your bike and it might be say 20 years old. Everything on the bike needs to be as it left the factory OR any mods at all have a TUV certificate, including the tyres. If the bike wasn't sold with those tyres and the bike is fitted with the latest greatest new tyres of the correct size and rating but no approved paperwork for that particular bike then FAIL. Different mirrors? Fail, different foot pegs or brake and clutch levers, fail.
As you can imagine tyre manufacturers and world aftermarket manufacturers aren't necessarily going to go through an expensive TUV certification for older vehicles or even for low volume sales of modern vehicles. The Germans!
Phil

That sounds horrendous ? Maybe I'll bump Germany up to #1 on my list simply because California doesn't have Motorcycle inspections (yet).

 

[BMWAF]

The Germans have the dreaded TUV inspection every 2 or 3 years depending on the vehicle. It's totally draconian. So you arrive for your TUV on your bike and it might be say 20 years old. Everything on the bike needs to be as it left the factory OR any mods at all have a TUV certificate, including the tyres. If the bike wasn't sold with those tyres and the bike is fitted with the latest greatest new tyres of the correct size and rating but no approved paperwork for that particular bike then FAIL. Different mirrors? Fail, different foot pegs or brake and clutch levers, fail.
As you can imagine tyre manufacturers and world aftermarket manufacturers aren't necessarily going to go through an expensive TUV certification for older vehicles or even for low volume sales of modern vehicles. The Germans!
Phil

Makes our nanny state seem almost palatable.

 

[Topperino]

That sounds horrendous ? Maybe I'll bump Germany up to #1 on my list simply because California doesn't have Motorcycle inspections (yet).

Trust me, as a german, its mostly accurate how he describes it. We have one of the strictest verhicle regulations in the world. But we also have no speed limits. I can legally drive 180 MPH on the highway right next to a cop and they maybe give me a nod. So it has pros and cons. But modding cars to be fun is definitely on its last legs. Starting 2026 basically only boring economy 4 cylinders are allowed here. The future is EV if I like it or not (and I dont)

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