Toyo Proxes R888R or Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 for stage 2 tune

[GRMan]

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[razorlab]

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[cbrummell]

I'm not talking about acceleration grip, I am talking about lateral stability.

Same thing I talk about when people say to shove 295 wide tires on 10" wide wheels and say "FeEls GoOd To Me" while in reality it creates really bad elastic yaw moments.

well i'm running a 285/35 on a 10.5 wide rear so could possibly be helping with stability but i was honestly impressed with this tire for how well it will corner for being a primarily straight line focused tire. it works well on the street for spirited driving

 

[razorlab]

well i'm running a 285/35 on a 10.5 wide rear so could possibly be helping with stability but i was honestly impressed with this tire for how well it will corner for being a primarily straight line focused tire. it works well on the street for spirited driving

Yes, you are proving our point. Proper matching of tire width and wheel width is key. 275 on a 10.5 would feel and perform even better.

 

[cbrummell]

Yes, you are proving our point. Proper matching of tire width and wheel width is key. 275 on a 10.5 would feel and perform even better.
[/QUOTEi think you'd start getting into stretch at that point factory is 275 on a 10 wide

Yes, you are proving our point. Proper matching of tire width and wheel width is key. 275 on a 10.5 would feel and perform even better.

i think you would start getting into stretch at that point stock is 275 on a 10.

10.5 is almost 13mm wider

 

[razorlab]

i think you would start getting into stretch at that point stock is 275 on a 10.

10.5 is almost 13mm wider

Very much also depends on the tire as they all run different widths even in the same "size". Also, some stretch is good for handling and response.

Here are some real world examples of mine:

275/35/19 Nankang AR1 on 19x10

275/35/19 Michelin Pilot Sport AS4 on 19x10

275/35/18 Kumho V730 on 18x10.5

275/40/18 Nankang CRS on 18x10.5

295/35/18 Bridgestone RE71RS on 18x11

295/30/18 Vitour P1 on 18x11

 

[cbrummell]

Very much also depends on the tire as they all run different widths even in the same "size". Also, some stretch is good for handling and response.

Here are some real world examples of mine:

275/35/19 Nankang AR1 on 19x10

275/35/19 Michelin Pilot Sport AS4 on 19x10

275/35/18 Kumho V730 on 18x10.5

275/40/18 Nankang CRS on 18x10.5

295/35/18 Bridgestone RE71RS on 18x11

295/30/18 Vitour P1 on 18x11

ive always been a compound > width guy and i hate rubbing... learned my lesson on my civic so i'm keeping it safe on the supra.

i also went up to a 30mm split between the front and rear tires (255/285) because i prefer the way it feels on the street with the rear a lot more settled down. so planning on possibly moving to a 265/295 setup with my 9.5/10.5

michelins fit so weird because of the giant rim protector hunk of rubber they add on the sidewall so it never looks stretched.

i only track drive 1-3 times a year so i don't think too much into it, just like to keep the car fast and fun on twisty back roads and high speed sweepers on the highway.

 

[TBK]

Very much also depends on the tire as they all run different widths even in the same "size". Also, some stretch is good for handling and response.

Here are some real world examples of mine:

275/35/19 Nankang AR1 on 19x10

275/35/19 Michelin Pilot Sport AS4 on 19x10

275/35/18 Kumho V730 on 18x10.5

275/40/18 Nankang CRS on 18x10.5

295/35/18 Bridgestone RE71RS on 18x11

295/30/18 Vitour P1 on 18x11

100% agree. It does depend on the tire and it's always good to use the manufacturers direction as a reference or guide. It's a bit less helpful when they list a range instead of an ideal size, but some do list the ideal size by wheel width. Nankang list a 10.5" wheel as the ideal width for their 295 tires

The intended use is also important, and it starts to get a bit hazy with dual purpose tires (e.g. PS4S). The CRS however are a track tire, and so their recommendation is based on that.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Gimme a little strip of groove grip on Maxxis Victra RC-1s & I’m happy
I also do a bit more stretch (like Bryan’s top pics) with 275 all around on 10.5 wheels. Try lots. It’s more fun that way & you’ll find what works best…

 

[TBK]

Yeah also depends on your sidewall size. On a 30 (295/30/18) sidewall i don't really want to stretch tbh like i would if i was running a 35 (295/35/18) or maybe even a taller tire

 

[razorlab]

Nankang list a 10.5" wheel as the ideal width for their 295 tires

Another thing to help my point. They say it's ideal but having used that exact size CRS on a 10.5 wheel, I was almost 2 secs slower than the same tire in 275 on a 10.5 and the car felt like crap. It felt like it had active yaw in the rear because it was too much tire width for the wheel width.

I was even faster with a Kumho v730 in 275 on a 10.5

This feeds back into the countless documents and videos about wider tire doesn't always mean better.

 

[TBK]

Another thing to help my point. They say it's ideal but having used that exact size CRS on a 10.5 wheel, I was almost 2 secs slower than the same tire in 275 on a 10.5 and the car felt like crap. It felt like it had active yaw in the rear because it was too much tire width for the wheel width.

I was even faster with a Kumho v730 in 275 on a 10.5

This feeds back into the countless documents and videos about wider tire doesn't always mean better.

How much of that is due to you (and your setup) being faster with a 275 vs the 275 being better on a 10.5? I don't see a why/how Nankang would be so off on their recommendation for a single use-case tire.

I think Im actually going to reach out to them and see what they have to say about this. Might even thrown in your anecdote to try and see if they have anything to say about that.

 

[razorlab]

How much of that is due to you (and your setup) being faster with a 275 vs the 275 being better on a 10.5? I don't see a why/how Nankang would be so off on their recommendation for a single use-case tire.

I think Im actually going to reach out to them and see what they have to say about this. Might even thrown in your anecdote to try and see if they have anything to say about that.

Sure, setup could be some of it but too wide a tire on too narrow a wheel seems pretty agnostic to me.

I wouldn't put a TON of weight into what the actual company states. They (surprise!!) aren't always right and might be just trying to sell tires.

Case in point. Vitour is shouting from the mountain tops that their P1 tire is the new holy grail of tires. It's faster than other tires, lasts for 100 years and will make you more attractive. My experience was that they are hype. They went semi fast for one lap, then fell off by 1 sec and were never able to get back to that semi fast lap over multiple days and events. I then put RE71RS on and instantly dropped 1 second back to my PB lap time, then went a whole other second faster for a new PB. Zero changes to my setup between both tires. I also did not become more attractive while using Vitour P1 tires.

TLDR: Companies are trying to sell product. Trust them as much as you dare.

 

[TBK]

Sure, setup could be some of it but too wide a tire on too narrow a wheel seems pretty agnostic to me.

I wouldn't put a TON of weight into what the actual company states. They (surprise!!) aren't always right and might be just trying to sell tires.

Case in point. Vitour is shouting from the mountain tops that their P1 tire is the new holy grail of tires. It's faster than other tires, lasts for 100 years and will make you more attractive. My experience was that they are hype. They went semi fast for one lap, then fell off by 1 sec and were never able to get back to that semi fast lap over multiple days and events. I then put RE71RS on and instantly dropped 1 second back to my PB lap time, then went a whole other second faster for a new PB. Zero changes to my setup between both tires. I also did not become more attractive while using Vitour P1 tires.

TLDR: Companies are trying to sell product. Trust them as much as you dare.

Your Vitour experience is interesting. Tire Rack did an updated track tire comparison and had them come in as the 2nd fastest or something like that. Don't remember the exact details except that they seem to be fast. But like you they also had them a bit slower when averaged out, but still fast overall. I believe 2nd for fastest time and 4th for average time was their final ranking. Not too dissimilar from your numbers. I would however say that I care about the fastest single lap time less so the average because of TA.

I already have the 295s on order for tomorrow as my wheels are meant to hopefully arrive by then. So I'll try to share my thoughts as I have some track days lined up.

 

[razorlab]

Your Vitour experience is interesting. Tire Rack did an updated track tire comparison and had them come in as the 2nd fastest or something like that. Don't remember the exact details except that they seem to be fast. But like you they also had them a bit slower when averaged out, but still fast overall. I believe 2nd for fastest time and 4th for average time was their final ranking. Not too dissimilar from your numbers. I would however say that I care about the fastest single lap time less so the average because of TA.

I already have the 295s on order for tomorrow as my wheels are meant to hopefully arrive by then. So I'll try to share my thoughts as I have some track days lined up.

Vitour also deletes any posts on their FB group that could possibly not align with their marketing hype. Their US spokesperson is a total jerk as well and makes up all sorts of crap like how he got 5000 laps on a set but they are faster than A052's. What's left are mainly people that have moved to the P1 as their first 200 tw tire ever and are head over heels about them as they finally have a tire with decent grip. It's actually kind of amusing. All propaganda marketing hype BS.

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