Designing FT-1 inspired wing- Looking to see if there is demand as well as suggestions for improvement

[rottmore]

This likely won't be considered because it involves designing around another companys footprint or copying others work, but one thing I’ve wondered is whether track guys on the forums, who have already drilled holes into their trunks for a Verus wing, would value the option of swapping to a street style wing on their days off from the track

Since your mounting points are now in a similar location to Verus Engineering, I see an opportunity for you to make your trunk mounts compatible with the Verus support plates, or vice versa. This gives people the option to easily swap between your FT-1 and a Verus uprights.

Also see this giving you an opportunity to start designing your own lineup of street style wing for the mounts, like a Seibon or Street Hunter look-alike, or another FT1 V2.
Trying to make a street-style wing look pretty on a track focused trunk mount would be tricky, but I doubt the track guys would mind, as long as it looks good and they have options to easily swap styles and still have it compatible with their Verus mounts.

Yea.... i mean, it's a complete redesign of the trunk mounts and pylons to perfectly match the exact bolt locations, but I figured I'd throw the idea out there.

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[TheMaker]

This likely won't be considered because it involves designing around another companys footprint or copying others work, but one thing I’ve wondered is whether track guys on the forums, who have already drilled holes into their trunks for a Verus wing, would value the option of swapping to a street style wing on their days off from the track

Since your mounting points are now in a similar location to Verus Engineering, I see an opportunity for you to make your trunk mounts compatible with the Verus support plates, or vice versa. This gives people the option to easily swap between your FT-1 and a Verus uprights.

Also see this giving you an opportunity to start designing your own lineup of street style wing for the mounts, like a Seibon or Street Hunter look-alike, or another FT1 V2.
Trying to make a street-style wing look pretty on a track focused trunk mount would be tricky, but I doubt the track guys would mind, as long as it looks good and they have options to easily swap styles and still have it compatible with their Verus mounts.

Yea.... i mean, it's a complete redesign of the trunk mounts and pylons to perfectly match the exact bolt locations, but I figured I'd throw the idea out there.

Thats not a bad idea the only thing is that i would need one their wings and mounts to get the bolt holes to line up. Its actually kind of harder to retro fit to an existing product than to create it yourself, in terms alignment anyway. Im not opposed to the interchangeability and I dont see that as "copying someones work" because I'd be making original designs, they would just be mounted in the same locations.

I wouldnt worry about having to redesign the uprights to fit the verus mounts, Its fairly simple I could do it for any mount

I might reach out to Verus and inquire this with them. Worst they can say is No.

I was contemplating just buying the trunk skin from a local dealer and using that as mock-up. I could buy various mounts from different style existing wings and make my own retro-fits. I wouldnt be competing with any of these manufactures either because the supra owner would likely have that companies wing first as a dedicated track wing... mine second

If I'm understanding correctly

 

[i3igpete]

This is not unheard of. I believe PhD racing uses Verus reinforcement plates for their Spage wing.

 

[rwense]

Thats not a bad idea the only thing is that i would need one their wings and mounts to get the bolt holes to line up. Its actually kind of harder to retro fit to an existing product than to create it yourself, in terms alignment anyway. Im not opposed to the interchangeability and I dont see that as "copying someones work" because I'd be making original designs, they would just be mounted in the same locations.

I wouldnt worry about having to redesign the uprights to fit the verus mounts, Its fairly simple I could do it for any mount

I might reach out to Verus and inquire this with them. Worst they can say is No.

I was contemplating just buying the trunk skin from a local dealer and using that as mock-up. I could buy various mounts from different style existing wings and make my own retro-fits. I wouldnt be competing with any of these manufactures either because the supra owner would likely have that companies wing first as a dedicated track wing... mine second

If I'm understanding correctly

They've always been pretty responsive when I've reached out!

The design now looks fairly similar to some of their low drag wings for miatas and gt86s. Who knows maybe they may be interested in

 

[TheMaker]

Not going to spam you guys every time something comes out the printer but this is the first piece.

Overall it came out great though i may use a different support going forward as it was more difficult to remove than expected.
The bolt sleeve and cf rod channel tolerance was a bit tight for my liking… the channel more so. You need it to be tight, but have enough room for the adhesive to build up a bit as well. I might increase the tolerance by another 0.1mm. We’ll see how the next section comes out.

the mounting locations fit perfectly though… very happy with that.

im already seeing areas of improvement so well chalk this up as prototype #1

 

[rwense]

Not going to spam you guys every time something comes out the printer but this is the first piece.

Overall it came out great though i may use a different support going forward as it was more difficult to remove than expected.
The bolt sleeve and cf rod channel tolerance was a bit tight for my liking… the channel more so. You need it to be tight, but have enough room for the adhesive to build up a bit as well. I might increase the tolerance by another 0.1mm. We’ll see how the next section comes out.

the mounting locations fit perfectly though… very happy with that.

im already seeing areas of improvement so well chalk this up as prototype #1

Sick! Looks good so far. Dont worry about spam. Each update just bumps it for more visibility. Its in your best interest

 

[rottmore]

Thats not a bad idea the only thing is that i would need one their wings and mounts to get the bolt holes to line up. Its actually kind of harder to retro fit to an existing product than to create it yourself, in terms alignment anyway. Im not opposed to the interchangeability and I dont see that as "copying someones work" because I'd be making original designs, they would just be mounted in the same locations.

I wouldnt worry about having to redesign the uprights to fit the verus mounts, Its fairly simple I could do it for any mount

I might reach out to Verus and inquire this with them. Worst they can say is No.

I was contemplating just buying the trunk skin from a local dealer and using that as mock-up. I could buy various mounts from different style existing wings and make my own retro-fits. I wouldnt be competing with any of these manufactures either because the supra owner would likely have that companies wing first as a dedicated track wing... mine second

If I'm understanding correctly

I see an opportunity for you to make your trunk mounts compatible with the Verus support plates, or vice versa.

My fault... mixed up my terminology, I meant Verus uprights. You can make your uprights compatible with Verus mounts, or your mounts compatible with Verus uprights.

Yeah... It's definitely hard making things retrofit perfectly. I thought maybe it could help you gain more interest from people who have already drilled holes for their Verus mounts and would consider a secondary aesthetic option that fits the track look. could also gives the aesthetics crowd an entry into the track performance option.

Thinking about it now, trying to make a Seibon or a Street Hunter wing match with a track-specific build with a huge front splitter would probably look strange in some way. But I think your FT-1 wing would work. So I still see the benefit of redesigning your trunk mounts and upright bot locations.

Like Pete mentioned, since PHD Racing makes a Spage wing for the Verus uprights, you could also do the same thing.
Sure, you'd have to redesign the mounting points to make the wing modular for both top and bottom mounts, but that kind of flexibility adds value to the final product and could peak more interest when you give buyer options.
Also, you could offer other types of aesthetic uprights to sell, like an adjustable multi-piece or a swan neck version.

 

[TheMaker]

My fault... mixed up my terminology, I meant Verus uprights. You can make your uprights compatible with Verus mounts, or your mounts compatible with Verus uprights.

Yeah... It's definitely hard making things retrofit perfectly. I thought maybe it could help you gain more interest from people who have already drilled holes for their Verus mounts and would consider a secondary aesthetic option that fits the track look. could also gives the aesthetics crowd an entry into the track performance option.

Thinking about it now, trying to make a Seibon or a Street Hunter wing match with a track-specific build with a huge front splitter would probably look strange in some way. But I think your FT-1 wing would work. So I still see the benefit of redesigning your trunk mounts and upright bot locations.

Like Pete mentioned, since PHD Racing makes a Spage wing for the Verus uprights, you could also do the same thing.
Sure, you'd have to redesign the mounting points to make the wing modular for both top and bottom mounts, but that kind of flexibility adds value to the final product and could peak more interest when you give buyer options.
Also, you could offer other types of aesthetic uprights to sell, like an adjustable multi-piece or a swan neck version.

To answer your first part:



i did reach out to Verus and i got a less than favourable reply at first. We’ll see if talks continue, haven’t heard back since the last thread but that was a Friday evening so fair enough. There was apprehension when i suggested using the same mounting location and under trunk supports. Im not trying to pry out IP from anyone. I’ll probably have to figure this out on my own somehow.



So this kind of ties into your second part, it doesn’t look like ill be using the actual verus trunk mounts either. Redesigning my uprights for their mounts would have been simple.



Im not sure what kind agreement Spage and Verus have but i know that wouldn’t fly without permission. I have no friends in the industry so its kinda rough out here lol its nice to see boys on here wanting this to happen though, very appreciative of everyone’s contribution.


Once I get this going and theres a base I can work off, yeah i can offer different styles. I was thinking about doing something similar to the MKIV TRD 3000GT with a middle support as well but i need to channel my ADHD into finishing this

 

[rottmore]

To answer your first part:

i did reach out to Verus and i got a less than favourable reply at first. We’ll see if talks continue, haven’t heard back since the last thread but that was a Friday evening so fair enough. There was apprehension when i suggested using the same mounting location and under trunk supports. Im not trying to pry out IP from anyone. I’ll probably have to figure this out on my own somehow.

Damn... yea I didn't think they would go for it, since they're obviously design engineers with in house fabrication. But hey, if it's something you're still considering you could always 3d scan someone local with a verus wing or maybe someone on the forum can send you the mounts, uprights and a template.

So this kind of ties into your second part, it doesn’t look like ill be using the actual verus trunk mounts either.

Yeah, I used the wrong term. Versus uprights. Not support plates, if that's what you're referring to. otherwise im confused lol.

Ultimately what i probably failed to relay was the idea of make the kit modular and sell the mounts, uprights, and wing separately, but this is tailoring to the verus crowd only. I bring them up since it seems to be very popular track wing.
Order tracking could be a challenge but you might get some faster lead times from fabricators... 2 weeks maybe? Also less money on raw materials.

Redesigning my uprights for their mounts would have been simple.

That's good, I thought it would have been more of a headache to redraft.

Im not sure what kind agreement Spage and Verus have but i know that wouldn’t fly without permission. I have no friends in the industry so its kinda rough out here lol its nice to see boys on here wanting this to happen though, very appreciative of everyone’s contribution.

I think it's more to do with marketing than an agreement. Jackie ding from PHD posts a lot fast lap times and has a pretty good following. So verus has an incentive to work with him to showcase their product and allow him to design his own based on there footprint.
Sometimes grassroots is better for the customer. You still have guys like @rwense and @Strych9 that would be more than willing to help you out, so you're not alone.
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/general-fabrication-thread.30323/

Once I get this going and theres a base I can work off, yeah i can offer different styles. I was thinking about doing something similar to the MKIV TRD 3000GT with a middle support as well but i need to channel my ADHD into finishing this

That's a wing i would like to see on an A90
After you finish with the TRD, you can move onto making an active aero FT-1 kit and then another DRS version. So fuck those verus guys lol.

 

[TheMaker]

Damn... yea I didn't think they would go for it, since they're obviously design engineers with in house fabrication. But hey, if it's something you're still considering you could always 3d scan someone local with a verus wing or maybe someone on the forum can send you the mounts, uprights and a template.


Yeah, I used the wrong term. Versus uprights. Not support plates, if that's what you're referring to. otherwise im confused lol.

Ultimately what i probably failed to relay was the idea of make the kit modular and sell the mounts, uprights, and wing separately, but this is tailoring to the verus crowd only. I bring them up since it seems to be very popular track wing.
Order tracking could be a challenge but you might get some faster lead times from fabricators... 2 weeks maybe? Also less money on raw materials.


That's good, I thought it would have been more of a headache to redraft.



I think it's more to do with marketing than an agreement. Jackie ding from PHD posts a lot fast lap times and has a pretty good following. So verus has an incentive to work with him to showcase their product and allow him to design his own based on there footprint.
Sometimes grassroots is better for the customer. You still have guys like @rwense and @Strych9 that would be more than willing to help you out, so you're not alone.
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/general-fabrication-thread.30323/



That's a wing i would like to see on an A90
After you finish with the TRD, you can move onto making an active aero FT-1 kit and then another DRS version. So fuck those verus guys lol.

You kind of hit the nail on head with a modular set up. I wanted to make a set of bolt holes and use those for future projects, making swapping and customizing easier for people. I love the passion but im not trying to throw any shade at the verus boys, they're doing a great job lol
Once i can enter the market with a good product that can sell, it open the floodgate for me to push other designs out there. I have a lot of ideas but without the actual car, its hard to move as quickly as i know i can.

 

[samurai_sony]

I was able to slant (with minimal design changes) the riser to push the bottom mount closer to the edge of the trunk, effectively giving it more space in case some people may want to run a ducktail in junction. @rwense Let me know what you think.

Also added a secondary more aggressive AoA, adding 4 deg (11 total) the entire deck needs to be uninstalled and repositioned (best I could do given the bolt diameters and already aggressive aoa) but its only 4 bolts.

The top section remained unchanged.

Edit: youll notice the trunk mounts have a bit of an extension to add a bit more surface area. I felt it completed the look and didnt add much material, ducktail should still be able to ( not confirmed, educated guess)

That last photo, rear 3/4 shot

Looking amazing. I am wondering if it sits too high? Over all looking awesome.

 

[TheMaker]

Looking amazing. I am wondering if it sits too high? Over all looking awesome.

Thank you!

Currently sits 320mm from the top middle of the wing to the top middle of the trunk. Its shorter than APR's gtc wing by 10-35mm respectively. If i go shorter, rear visibility gets worse and the air stream isn't as good. Hard to say exactly how high the FT-1 wing is but it looks like its at least 280mm tall. Mine has a larger chord and span which was needed to keep the proportions right.

I was thinking of making a smaller wing, something more low profile like the Camaro ZL1 or Mustang GT500 after this one is done. I have an older version of this wing I could lower and stretch out a bit, keep the mounts and just redesign the uprights... a shorty version is possible

 

[i3igpete]

Like Pete mentioned, since PHD Racing makes a Spage wing for the Verus uprights, you could also do the same thing.

I THINK the phd setup is

Reinforcement plates = verus standard (same as ucw)
Upright = spage or phd design, verus manufactured
Wing = spage design, spage manufacture
CFD analysis = spage/phd commissioned, verus performed

 

[TheMaker]

I THINK the phd setup is

Reinforcement plates = verus standard (same as ucw)
Upright = spage or phd design, verus manufactured
Wing = spage design, spage manufacture
CFD analysis = spage/phd commissioned, verus performed

So its not a 1 man show at all. Might need to collaborate with local shops, realistically if I want to get this done

 

[rottmore]

I THINK the phd setup is

Reinforcement plates = verus standard (same as ucw)
Upright = spage or phd design, verus manufactured
Wing = spage design, spage manufacture
CFD analysis = spage/phd commissioned, verus performed

Pete, I’m handing you the keys on this modular concept... I’m tapping out before I fall any deeper down this rabbit hole lol. @TheMaker just listen to whatever @i3igpete says.

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