2020 Supra Transmission Chat - Manual, Dual Clutch, or Auto?

[Jdmuscle]

While this is true, the 4Runner is the only all-Toyota model in their USA lineup that does not have TSS. The only other two are the 86 and the Yaris Sedan/iA, which are manufactured by Subaru and Mazda respectively, the latter being an entirely rebadged existing Mazda model.

As far as the 2019 4Runner goes, have they announced any features/specs yet for it beyond the TRD Pro changes? I wouldn't be surprised to see it without TSS, but was just curious.

Jeff

Hi Jeff, they announced the TRD PRO 4Runner at the Chicago Auto show and it was confirmed there that TSS is not even available on the T4R but standard on the Tacoma and the Tundra.

I typically wouldn’t want these gizmos in my car but I’m looking for a car to replace my wife’s IS350 and wanted a T4R. I’d like have BSM and Rear cross traffic alert at the least. But no dice.

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[decryphe]

I wonder why they are so serious about safety above everything?

I don't mind them being serious about safety, but let's look at it from this side:
First they mess up by writing shoddy software, then they throw more software and new sensors at the problem and label it "safe". It's not really that convincing to me and I'd prefer the system to stay simple. Also the main reason why I'm very sceptical about cars being connected to the internet (or any network).

I read an in-depth analysis of the kind of *just-don't-do-that* style of code that could lead to such things as self-accelerating cars (apparently to get the ECU back to a safe state was to release the brakes and step on the gas for the state machine to move on). (Source: http://www.safetyresearch.net/blog/...ed-acceleration-and-big-bowl-“spaghetti”-code)

Sure, I know that I have some dissonance in my thoughts, but I still wouldn't want to sit in a car driven by a computer. Too bad I will have to have them around me as a pedestrian/cyclist and no way to opt-out. I'm in IT mainly, hence being so overly sceptical of IT systems - I've seen the seven hells inside.

 

[Modal170]

I don't mind them being serious about safety, but let's look at it from this side:
First they mess up by writing shoddy software, then they throw more software and new sensors at the problem and label it "safe". It's not really that convincing to me and I'd prefer the system to stay simple. Also the main reason why I'm very sceptical about cars being connected to the internet (or any network).

I read an in-depth analysis of the kind of *just-don't-do-that* style of code that could lead to such things as self-accelerating cars (apparently to get the ECU back to a safe state was to release the brakes and step on the gas for the state machine to move on). (Source: http://www.safetyresearch.net/blog/articles/toyota-unintended-acceleration-and-big-bowl-“spaghetti”-code)

Sure, I know that I have some dissonance in my thoughts, but I still wouldn't want to sit in a car driven by a computer. Too bad I will have to have them around me as a pedestrian/cyclist and no way to opt-out. I'm in IT mainly, hence being so overly sceptical of IT systems - I've seen the seven hells inside.

I don't want to be driven by the car, I want the car to be driven by me.

I'm just saying if I lost 1.2 billion dollars, I'm not going to make the same mistake twice and ensure that the car is the best it can be and meet the standards by USA traffic regulations. When you push to the entire world that you want to be the safest automative brand after entering a scandal where your cars were deemed unsafe, you want to make the public have faith once again.

 

[zigzagz94]

The whole point of a completely impractical two seat sports car is driver involvement and excitement. FOR ME a manual is just more FUN. I don't care it the Auto/DCT is 0.XX faster or safer. I only care about how it makes me feel behind the wheel. If I'm dropping $50-70 grand on a car I want to be totally enamored with my purchase. I don't want to have any reservations or regrets on such a large purchase. Lack of a manual is a HUGE compromise that would give me great pause before purchasing and may lead me to consider other alternatives in the same price bracket that do offer a manual: C7 corvette, M2, etc.

 

[Lexusisf]

The whole point of a completely impractical two seat sports car is driver involvement and excitement. FOR ME a manual is just more FUN. I don't care it the Auto/DCT is 0.XX faster or safer. I only care about how it makes me feel behind the wheel. If I'm dropping $50-70 grand on a car I want to be totally enamored with my purchase. I don't want to have any reservations or regrets on such a large purchase. Lack of a manual is a HUGE compromise that would give me great pause before purchasing and may lead me to consider other alternatives in the same price bracket that do offer a manual: C7 corvette, M2, etc.

Yup...alternatives are available...love the M2 manual...

 

[MA617M]

yeah, i want to be able to clutch kick the car, or drop the revs at 4600rpm. manuals are so much more fun.

 

[Spilner]

^ not to mention fun around the corners!

 

[Spilner]

http://www.thedrive.com/news/19379/nissan-400z-is-reportedly-happening-with-a-475-hp-nismo-version

Toyota must respond

 

[Villa Jonny]

http://www.thedrive.com/news/19379/nissan-400z-is-reportedly-happening-with-a-475-hp-nismo-version

Toyota must respond

Respond to what? Rumors?

 

[A70TTR]

Something interesting though, is that the 2019 Corolla Hatchback in the USA is getting the new driveline along with the new generation Auris architecture, and along with the new 2.0L M20A-FKS engine it is including a 6MT for both the SE and XSE grades. I assume this is the newly developed 6MT that Toyota announced a week or two ago in Geneva.

So if Toyota is moving forward with making AEB standard, and is also introducing new manual transmission models as well, it seems like the work is already done, no?

I mean, it would possibly mean engineering other new transmissions for various driveline setups (such as the Tacoma, etc.) and that may not be viable, but it seems like they've already got at least some work done into making manuals work moving forward.

EDIT: This is not to mention other models that have had pre-collision systems with manual already, such as the 2018 Corolla, Corolla/iM, Tacoma and older models like the IS220d and IS250 with pre-collision.

Jeff

There are going to continue to be innovations in the field and they may trickle down into other vehicles. One of the huge issues is not that it's impossible (nothing of the sort); it's justifying the systems on other transmissions/platforms and in the case of the Supra it was $500m for an approximate 20% manual take rate and trying to integrate TSS with BMW systems (bad investment all things considered). That's spending a ton on a single bmw/toyota vehicle that has no connection or adaptation into other vehicles in the lineup.

The majority of the reason manuals are being dropped is sales projections/take rates versus safety. TSS is merely a facet of the entire equation.

That said, the Corollas new transmission has been in development for quite some time and is possibly a good sign as far as having spent the money to develop new manual tech that has been properly integrated with TSS. Im sure a good deal of that R&D would be useful for other applications.

In any case, I hope they just figure things out.

 

[Jeff Lange]

Yeah. I fully expect manuals to disappear pretty quickly. But a man can dream.

Jeff

 

[DevonK]

Forbes is reporting that a 8 speed DCT is likely according to their "close to Toyota" sources.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

So much for the end of manuals...

Hatch is Back! All-New 2019 Toyota Corolla Hatchback Wows at the 2018 New York International Auto Show

New TNGA 2.0-liter Four-Cylinder, Six-Speed iMT Manual Transmission

http://pressroom.toyota.com/release...+toyota+corolla+hatchback+wows+2018+nyias.htm

 

[Jeff Lange]

Yeah, that's the one I was talking about earlier in this thread with the new M20A engine and the fresh off the mill 6MT.

And TSS 2.0 with AEB, of course.

Still, that's not integrating it with BMW's systems, which is a different challenge.

Jeff

 

[LEG1T]

^There is a glimmer of light at the end of tunnel. Toyota just dropped a major bombshell.

Hope is alive!!!!! Massive newssss

The gearbox also offers world-leading transmission efficiency, while the use of iMT controls, which automatically adjust engine revolutions when changing gears, ensures smooth gear shifting?free of uncomfortable recoils?for the driver.

Enhanced Toyota Safety Tech

Toyota continues to lead the pack when it comes to safety, and the all-new Corolla Hatchback provides drivers and passengers with standard safety technologies that take one step closer to achieving the ultimate goal of zero casualties from traffic accidents.

Corolla Hatchback comes standard with TSS 2.0, the second generation of Toyota Safety Sense (TSS). The updated safety package adds new active-safety technologies and capabilities that enhance protection.

So proof of the latest TSS adapted to work in a Manual transmission by Toyota themself!!!

If the Toyota Corolla gets a Manual, with reference of being a canyon cruiser and the Supra does not I'll be dammed.

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