Does JDM even matter in 2021?

Thill444

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Serious discussion. Just for some background my first car (bought at 16) was a 1981 Mazda RX-7. For the next 10 years I owned many more RX-7's and between my wife and I, we have pretty much had a Mazda, Nissan, or Honda in our garage for the better part of 30+ years.

Like many I saw the pictures of the Supra and read about the fake vents, etc when it was revealed. The HP numbers (on paper) didn't seem impressive and it seemed like BMW may have forced Toyota to neuter the engine in favor of the Z4. No manual too (I have had at least one manual sports car in my garage since age 16). Many, many people online were very unhappy with the BMW partnership and felt that Toyota sold out.

Negative enough? Well then we started to read the positives. Clearly the engine was underrated for power. The ZF transmission was programmed excellently. Interior fit and finish was very nice (by Toyota standards). Car looked better (at least my opinion) in person vs pictures. Tons of mods started coming out and the aftermarket community really embraced the MKV Supra. Lots of Youtubers started getting them and modifying them and the overall impressions were very favorable.

After several more cars (GT350, Camaro SS1LE) I placed an order for a C8 Corvette but after months of issues at the GM plant and being told my 21 C8 order was cancelled (by this time I had sold the Camaro) I looked/test drove at a few cars. Porsche Cayman (S and GTS). BMW M2 (comp). Did not the like 4 cylinder manual Cayman S. Loved the GTS (PDK). Really liked the M2 Comp (manual). Then I remembered the Supra. This was early May this year and the market was already crazy, Porsche dealers wanted an arm and a leg for used ones and the M2 Comp was brand new and felt like it cost more than it was worth to me.

Fell in love with the Supra. It really felt like it was a combo of the Cayman and M2 to me. Dealer offered me a really great price on a new one ($53K out the door for a $58K loaded new 21). Bought the car and have and the more I drive the car the more I realize how ridiculous the whole JDM aspect of the car is to me. Bottomline the head of the program was tasked to build a car that had to make a profit and evolve. He knew building a new Supra from the ground up (especially since Toyota no longer had an inline 6) would be costly and kill the car most likely. After his successful partnership with Subaru on the 86, the partnership with BMW made sense.

Reliability wise BMW over the last 5-10 years has made great strides and they are now higher than some Japanese companies. For me, the JDM roots just don't matter anymore. This is no longer the 90's and with a global economy you will see more car companies do partnerships like these for sports cars.
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Sigg

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I suspect after the recent collab that if bmw decides to borrow procedures and philosophy learned while working with Toyota, their reliability will only continue to increase. Plus implementation of Toyota mild hybrid systems, etc will only add to reliability. These motor generators r awesome. No more replacing alternators.
 
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Thill444

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I suspect after the recent collab that if bmw decides to borrow procedures and philosophy learned while working with Toyota, their reliability will only continue to increase. Plus implementation of Toyota mild hybrid systems, etc will only add to reliability. These motor generators r awesome. No more replacing alternators.
I agree, as I said BMW has made strides on their reliability.
I guess my point, and it probably wasn't clear, is that in a global car market I, personally, don't care as much about the region and badge and I care more about the actual car itself.

I personally think dismissing a car because of where it is built or who supplied the parts seems shortsighted today .

If you think this way you will limit the market of what types of car and brand you buy and miss out. If someone drove the Supra and said "I just don't like the car" it's one thing. It's another to say "I don't want to even consider or test drive the car because it's not pure JDM".

What does that even mean anymore? Most parts are sourced from China or other countries and even if the part was assembled in Japan, It's likely using materials from China.

In terms of reliability most cars in general are much more reliable now than they ever were. If reliability and maintenance costs are that much of a concern with a car like the Supra, get an extended warranty for 10+ years and 100K+ miles.
 

PerformanceSound

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Reliability wise BMW over the last 5-10 years has made great strides and they are now higher than some Japanese companies. For me, the JDM roots just don't matter anymore. This is no longer the 90's and with a global economy you will see more car companies do partnerships like these for sports cars.
I donā€™t think ā€œJDMā€ is necessarily a direct correlation to reliability (in many cases it is). Cars Made In Japan or ā€œJ carsā€ in general have a distinct allure to them that not everyone recognizes. Itā€™s like whiskey or cigarsā€¦.itā€™s an acquired taste. However, itā€™s powerful enough to make someone pay $20k-$30k-$40k over a superior late mode US or Euro competitor car. Itā€™s still alive and well!
 

2JZ-No-Sh*t

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JDM does not automatically equal reliability. There are a number of trash cars that came from overseas.

Now if you want to switch the topic over to long term reliability on the J29, the jury is still out.
 
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Thill444

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JDM does not automatically equal reliability. There are a number of trash cars that came from overseas.

Now if you want to switch the topic over to long term reliability on the J29, the jury is still out.
True JDM had their issues (lots of major rust issues for example with some models), but the Big 3 in America made such poorly designed and unreliable cars it was not easy to pass them by early on.

With a global economy this just becomes less of a factor for me as most of these companies are sourcing the majority of parts from the same manufacturers. From transmissions, to airbags, to mircochips, to aluminum, ECU's, etc, etc. This is why most cars have similar reliability for major components and then it comes down to the intangibles.

It's ironic that both my Supra and my Jeep Wrangler have a ZF8HP transmission. Or a Ford GT500 and a C8 Corvette both have Tremec DCT's using very similar technology.

We used to be a big Mazda, Nissan, Honda family combined between my wife and I. Ironically over the last 10 years I found my VW products to be more reliable than Honda, and Nissan is just a mess now. I would trust most American cars over Nissan.
 

Larrys_Toys

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Serious discussion. Just for some background my first car (bought at 16) was a 1981 Mazda RX-7. For the next 10 years I owned many more RX-7's and between my wife and I, we have pretty much had a Mazda, Nissan, or Honda in our garage for the better part of 30+ years.

Like many I saw the pictures of the Supra and read about the fake vents, etc when it was revealed. The HP numbers (on paper) didn't seem impressive and it seemed like BMW may have forced Toyota to neuter the engine in favor of the Z4. No manual too (I have had at least one manual sports car in my garage since age 16). Many, many people online were very unhappy with the BMW partnership and felt that Toyota sold out.

Negative enough? Well then we started to read the positives. Clearly the engine was underrated for power. The ZF transmission was programmed excellently. Interior fit and finish was very nice (by Toyota standards). Car looked better (at least my opinion) in person vs pictures. Tons of mods started coming out and the aftermarket community really embraced the MKV Supra. Lots of Youtubers started getting them and modifying them and the overall impressions were very favorable.

After several more cars (GT350, Camaro SS1LE) I placed an order for a C8 Corvette but after months of issues at the GM plant and being told my 21 C8 order was cancelled (by this time I had sold the Camaro) I looked/test drove at a few cars. Porsche Cayman (S and GTS). BMW M2 (comp). Did not the like 4 cylinder manual Cayman S. Loved the GTS (PDK). Really liked the M2 Comp (manual). Then I remembered the Supra. This was early May this year and the market was already crazy, Porsche dealers wanted an arm and a leg for used ones and the M2 Comp was brand new and felt like it cost more than it was worth to me.

Fell in love with the Supra. It really felt like it was a combo of the Cayman and M2 to me. Dealer offered me a really great price on a new one ($53K out the door for a $58K loaded new 21). Bought the car and have and the more I drive the car the more I realize how ridiculous the whole JDM aspect of the car is to me. Bottomline the head of the program was tasked to build a car that had to make a profit and evolve. He knew building a new Supra from the ground up (especially since Toyota no longer had an inline 6) would be costly and kill the car most likely. After his successful partnership with Subaru on the 86, the partnership with BMW made sense.

Reliability wise BMW over the last 5-10 years has made great strides and they are now higher than some Japanese companies. For me, the JDM roots just don't matter anymore. This is no longer the 90's and with a global economy you will see more car companies do partnerships like these for sports cars.
I agree with this. I bought a used 2020 Supra from a Porsche Dealer. The original owner traded for a new 911. I love this car. It looks good, drives great, has a great exhaust note and the interior is almost luxury. I am constantly getting compliments from people of all ages, but mostly the younger folks. I love the automatic! We have a ton of traffic in the Dallas/Fort Worth area so a manual transmission is a pain for me.
 

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I think "JDM" matters for parts sold only in Japan, brought over here by shops in limited quantities.

Also maybe if you bought a vintage with RHD and brought it over here.

Otherwise JDM is kind of synonymous with rice so it might be a good thing not to be associated with that lingo cause I like fries.
 

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The B58 might be the most JDM motor on the market right now...
1637353265277.png


Compared to the VR in the R35 and Z and the hybrid V6 in the NSX, the B58 single turbo inline-6 is probably the best modern counterpart to the famed motors of yesteryear (2JZ, RB26, etc.) - not to mention the capability of the twin turbo S58.

Sadly the RX7/8, Evo, S2000, and many others are dead, and besides the aforementioned top dogs, there's pretty much just the FA motor in the WRX and GR86/BRZ, the K20 in the CTR, and scattered V6's in the luxury options from Lexus and Infiniti.

Toyota probably considered rebadging an RC350 for the Supra (the only feasible alternative), and I would take the Z4 chassis+B58 combo over that any day, versus the bragging rights over what factory it was made in. Think of the monstrosity that Acura is calling the Integra these days...

For what it really is, I would have to say the B58 appeals to my JDM senses the most.
 
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Thill444

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The B58 might be the most JDM motor on the market right now...
1637353265277.png


Compared to the VR in the R35 and Z and the hybrid V6 in the NSX, the B58 single turbo inline-6 is probably the best modern counterpart to the famed motors of yesteryear (2JZ, RB26, etc.) - not to mention the capability of the twin turbo S58.

Sadly the RX7/8, Evo, S2000, and many others are dead, and besides the aforementioned top dogs, there's pretty much just the FA motor in the WRX and GR86/BRZ, the K20 in the CTR, and scattered V6's in the luxury options from Lexus and Infiniti.

Toyota probably considered rebadging an RC350 for the Supra (the only feasible alternative), and I would take the Z4 chassis+B58 combo over that any day, versus the bragging rights over what factory it was made in. Think of the monstrosity that Acura is calling the Integra these days...

For what it really is, I would have to say the B58 appeals to my JDM senses the most.
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The B58 is a fantastic motor! Iā€™ve said it so many times. I donā€™t think anyone has any concerns over the motor or even the ZF transmission, and if they doā€¦.they donā€™t know shit. The biggest complaint people have or have had in the past is the whole ā€œBMW makes it, soā€¦ā€. Again, they donā€™t know shit. If it wasnā€™t for my brother buying a MKV before me, the R35 costing a bit too much, and stumbling across a great deal on a MKIVā€¦.I would have picked up a MKV without question. The MKV Supra truly is a great platform.

Now, this doesnā€™t necessarily dismiss the ā€œJDM uniquenessā€ of a sports car made in Japanā€¦letā€™s be clear about that.
 

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I think "JDM" matters for parts sold only in Japan, brought over here by shops in limited quantities.

Also maybe if you bought a vintage with RHD and brought it over here.

Otherwise JDM is kind of synonymous with rice so it might be a good thing not to be associated with that lingo cause I like fries.
This. A huge part of the JDM "movement" (esp. in the 90's) came from the perspective of many Japanese companies that the US market didn't want, and wouldn't buy, their highest performing models. Whether you were interested in one or not, the fact that Japanese consumers had options like the V12 1GZ-FE powered Rolls-like Century (which you can shoehorn into the much smaller/lighter Chaser or MKIV Supra if you're brave) was enough.

On the "pocket-rocket" side you had Honda refusing US Type-R or SiR variants for years, and Nissan deciding that a truck engine was good enough for the US S-platform - along with neutering the sexy lines of the Silvia R spec offerings as well.

For many of us, even the names made a difference: Skyline, Chaser, Silvia, Fairlady, etc. seemed to have more cache than G35, SC, 240SX, and Z respectively. The fact that they also had better engines, styling, suspensions, etc. was just an extra incentive to swap anything you could find via importers or chop shops in Japan.

Ironically it was JDM culture that eliminated itself - eventually the Japanese auto makers took notice and started releasing more powerful and (occasionally) stylish models to the international markets - so now there's not as much reason for seeking out that JDM swap as there once was.
 

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This. A huge part of the JDM "movement" (esp. in the 90's) came from the perspective of many Japanese companies that the US market didn't want, and wouldn't buy, their highest performing models. Whether you were interested in one or not, the fact that Japanese consumers had options like the V12 1GZ-FE powered Rolls-like Century (which you can shoehorn into the much smaller/lighter Chaser or MKIV Supra if you're brave) was enough.

On the "pocket-rocket" side you had Honda refusing US Type-R or SiR variants for years, and Nissan deciding that a truck engine was good enough for the US S-platform - along with neutering the sexy lines of the Silvia R spec offerings as well.

For many of us, even the names made a difference: Skyline, Chaser, Silvia, Fairlady, etc. seemed to have more cache than G35, SC, 240SX, and Z respectively. The fact that they also had better engines, styling, suspensions, etc. was just an extra incentive to swap anything you could find via importers or chop shops in Japan.

Ironically it was JDM culture that eliminated itself - eventually the Japanese auto makers took notice and started releasing more powerful and (occasionally) stylish models to the international markets - so now there's not as much reason for seeking out that JDM swap as there once was.
Wait, are we talking about JDM RHD cars? If so, my apologiesā€¦.I was referencing ā€œUSDMā€ versions this whole time. Sorry for the mix up, I was talking about Japanese-made cars sold in the U.S.
 

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Wait, are we talking about JDM RHD cars? If so, my apologiesā€¦.I was referencing ā€œUSDMā€ versions this whole time. Sorry for the mix up, I was talking about Japanese-made cars sold in the U.S.
LOL. It was a bit of both, I think. I was just saying that the craving for the versions which weren't available in the US was a big part of the whole enchilada. While I loved the reliability and economy provided by the Toyotas and Hondas that we got here - to some extent, it was lusting over their JDM superiors (and trying to recreate them with swapped parts) that made them extra desirable.

Also why even now they command huge premiums over technically superior late model options (as you know well with a MKIV). ;)
 

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LOL. It was a bit of both, I think. I was just saying that the craving for the versions which weren't available in the US was a big part of the whole enchilada. While I loved the reliability and economy provided by the Toyotas and Hondas that we got here - to some extent, it was lusting over their JDM superiors (and trying to recreate them with swapped parts) that made them extra desirable.

Also why even now they command huge premiums over technically superior late model options (as you know well with a MKIV). ;)
A huge part of their high premium price tags nowadays is availabilityā€¦at least for the 90ā€™s and earlier Japanese sports cars. Iā€™m not trying to brag or showoff because im not really a die-hard Supra fanā€¦.but the reactions I get every time I drive my MKIV reminds me of just how sought after the car is to this day. Itā€™s not just the younger crowd, but also older drivers and women. Yesterday, a guy in a beautiful 2016 GT3 RS asked if he could look at my car in more detail so we pulled into a parking lot and talked about our cars for an hour. His exact words were, ā€œyour car maybe worth more than mine, but a Porsche is a Porsche!ā€ In Arizona (particularly Scottsdale) exotics are a dime a dozenā€¦.you see them everywhere, but since Iā€™ve lived here for two years now, I have yet to see more than two MKIVā€™s on the roadā€¦.and even those rarely come out. Throw in the plethora of YouTube videos and drag racing background of the MKIV, and itā€™s no wonder people want it. Again, Iā€™m not a MKIV fanboy and I actually like the MKV more (itā€™s a superior car), but I truly understand and accept the cult-like following and demand for the MKIV and other 90ā€™s Japanese legends.
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