Faint tick/click noise low speed 10-20mph

[JamesXie]

I have a 2021 3.0 premium that is completely stock. Recently while driving in garage, I heard slight metallic ticking noise from car that is hard to pin point. Frequency is speed related, happens in neutral coating as well. Braking and turning does not affect it. Here is a video of the sound. I removed the background noise (wind noise) little so the tick is more easily heard. The video is the car just coating down a ramp in neutral. I have checked the wheel bolts are torqued to spec, and replaced rear two tires since dealer says there are nails in tire. But that is not the cause. Any suggestion or help is much appreciated.

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[Deathscythe]

I'll chime in for general information. I have the same exact issue but even more pronounced.

What I've tried:

1. Checked the brake pads and shims. No movement.
2. Checked dust shield. No issues.
3. Checked for rocks. No rocks
4. Added anti seize between wheel and mounting surface. No change
5. Re-mounted all wheels with factory torque specs. No change.

I also have a 2021 3.0 Premium but I'm running Apex VS-5RS's and KW Clubsports currently.

 

[concept]

I would think that having your car on a lift with transmission in drive may allow you to pinpoint the location of the source of the noise. Have you tried this? You can also spin the front tires by hand.

 

[Deathscythe]

I would think that having your car on a lift with transmission in drive may allow you to pinpoint the location of the source of the noise. Have you tried this? You can also spin the front tires by hand.

That's definitely a good point!

I did lift the car and free rotate the front wheesl one by one. I also removed the wheels and rotated just the brake rotor as well. I had no sound with either of those tests.

For me, I can only replicate the issue when the car is fully weighted and on the ground. My clicking is so loud it starts turning heads while I'm driving in parking lots.

Tonight I'm going to switch wheels to see if it still occurs.

The BMW guys seem to be having the same issues from what I can find:

https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2023710&page=3

There also seems* to be a related BMW TSB including the G29 Z4.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10174009-9999.pdf

In my instance it may be the Apex wheels. The OP has stock wheels, so I'm not sure if it's the same issue.

 

[concept]

That's definitely a good point!

I did lift the car and free rotate the front wheesl one by one. I also removed the wheels and rotated just the brake rotor as well. I had no sound with either of those tests.

For me, I can only replicate the issue when the car is fully weighted and on the ground. My clicking is so loud it starts turning heads while I'm driving in parking lots.

Tonight I'm going to switch wheels to see if it still occurs.

The BMW guys seem to be having the same issues from what I can find:

https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2023710&page=3

There also seems* to be a related BMW TSB including the G29 Z4.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10174009-9999.pdf

In my instance it may be the Apex wheels. The OP has stock wheels, so I'm not sure if it's the same issue.

You're certainly doing the right checks. Now if you only had a dyno, at least you could rule out the rear of your car.

 

[Deathscythe]

I'm definitely trying! That clicking is driving me nuts!

So I just took off all of the wheels to check again and similar to what they mentioned in one of the BMW forums, the rotor definitely clanks on the side that doesn't have the retaining bolt.




I tightened the rotor bolts on all 4 corners and switched to my Titan 7's.

After a quick drive the noise is completely gone now.

When my back recovers I need to switch back to the APEX wheels to determine whether it was the wheels or the rotor bolts that is the culprit.

 

[lucky phil]

The rotor bolts are only there to retain the rotor when the wheels are off by and large. I'm not surprised the rotors aren't not totally solid with the wheels off. The wheel studs/bolts are the primary retention method for the rotors.

 

[Deathscythe]

The rotor bolts are only there to retain the rotor when the wheels are off by and large. I'm not surprised the rotors aren't not totally solid with the wheels off. The wheel studs/bolts are the primary retention method for the rotors.

Yeah, I agree, but there must be a design issue or condition with the rotors that exacerbates an already existing flaw/ behavior. I actually had this same exact issue on my 135i and no one could ever figure out why. At the time BMW told me "that's just the way they're designed and it's not a safety problem."

Anyway, the TSB mentions:

"CAUSE: Microscopic movement of the contact interface between the inner brake disc and the wheel bearing flange on vehicles equipped with lightweight brake discs."

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10174009-9999.pdf


That's what made me check the disks for the sound I was hearing.

I'm no mechanic by any means but the sound that the rotor made when I moved it, seemed like the same sound I've been hearing, just quieter.

Since this seems to be happening to all sorts of BMW models with the performance brake disks (including the Z4) I wonder if a different rotor would work? The BMW friction disk fix in the TSB seems like a bandaid to me.

 

[lucky phil]

Yeah, I agree, but there must be a design issue or condition with the rotors that exacerbates an already existing flaw/ behavior. I actually had this same exact issue on my 135i and no one could ever figure out why. At the time BMW told me "that's just the way they're designed and it's not a safety problem."

Anyway, the TSB mentions:

"CAUSE: Microscopic movement of the contact interface between the inner brake disc and the wheel bearing flange on vehicles equipped with lightweight brake discs."

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10174009-9999.pdf


That's what made me check the disks for the sound I was hearing.

I'm no mechanic by any means but the sound that the rotor made when I moved it, seemed like the same sound I've been hearing, just quieter.

Since this seems to be happening to all sorts of BMW models with the performance brake disks (including the Z4) I wonder if a different rotor would work? The BMW friction disk fix in the TSB seems like a bandaid to me.

Just one of those design issues that sneaks through testing and R&D sometimes. It Happens regularly. It's why I never buy a new model of anything until the design has had time to mature and thats a minimum of 2-3 years. In this case it's in the annoyance category. Focus RS's had a similar issue for the same reason and lubrication was the answer. Try a very light smear of hi temp antisieze on the disk carrier inner flange face. Make sure both surfaces are clean and corrosion free. It's not a safety problem just a "customer satisfaction" issue.
The problem with R&D testing is the testers are paid to drive the car/bikes hard to test their robustness and thats why some of this daily driver niggles get through to the production model and things like this crop up. Professional tester spend little time using the test mules for DD type driving. Also "performance parts" often come with a cost in relation to daily driving which manufacturers don't spend much time considering. Yhats why there are nearly as many performance clutches removed as installed. The R&D isn't finished until the customers have been DDing them for a few years thats for sure.

Phil

 

[Kujiwara]

what i suspect is that the wheel hub has relatively small contact area to the backside of the rotor compared to some other cars with more hub material. This plus the very fine looking surface finish (nearly polished looking) on the aluminum rotor hub doesn't have enough friction, and hence not enough friction force from the clamping force of the wheel bolts, hence the little rotor screw helping, and also the solution being a friction ring. This may be why the single piece rotor with a coated rotor which has higher surface roughness doesn't have the issue.
If we look at 2 piece rotors from Audi or AMG, the aluminum section are usually not this finely machined perhaps for this reason.

 

[JamesXie]

Thanks everyone for your opinions; I have taken it to two dealerships since I posted this. One tech stated he hears it but it is nothing to worry about as he checked breaks and suspension components and they all appear to be fine. The other tech from another dealership states that he cant hear it. Mine is completely stock, so it might just be a design flaw. Once I hear it and notice it, it is hard to ignore though. But if it is not a safety issue, I guess I will have to live with the annoyance for now.

 

[Deathscythe]

Good luck dude! It's definitely frustrating for sure. I also appreciate you making the post.

I just got back from a longer test drive after torquing down the disks even more and switching wheels back to my Apex's yesterday.

The good:
The sound was eliminated on the driver side front passenger side rear.

The bad:
Unfortunately, the sound amplified on the passenger side front and driver side rear.

The clicking is so loud for me that I'm going to either have to do the TSB or swap to aftermarket rotors with a different hat design in hopes of resolving.

In the BMW forums Apex mentioned that thin spacers have been shown to help in their experience too, so that might also be a cheaper option as well.

 

[Deathscythe]

Finally following up on this.

I can confirm in my instance that a thick coating of anti seize around the brake disk and hub flange as well as some 5 mil spacers (as suggest suggested by Apex in the BMW forum) resolved my issue.

I've been driving it for a few weeks now with no sounds at all.

Overall, I think this is either caused by the issue mentioned in the TSB or by certain wheel mounting surfaces causing the rivets on the performance brake disk to transmit or amplify some existing sounds or friction. (As alluded to in the other forum)

Hopefully someone finds this helpful!

 

[JamesXie]

Thanks for the post. Did you originally have the sound coming from front or rear? When I did your remedy, did you apply to all four wheels? Thanks

 

[Deathscythe]

Thanks for the post. Did you originally have the sound coming from front or rear? When I did your remedy, did you apply to all four wheels? Thanks

No problem!

Originally I only heard the clicking from the front wheels but eventually I heard it on all 4. None of them made the sound while on the lift or without load.

I put the anti seize on all 4 corners and made sure to torque the all the nuts to suggested torque specs.

If you see any rust or corrosion make sure to clean the hub flange and disk surface with a wire brush.

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