Fleet vehicles - good, bad, in between?

concept

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I occasionally see a Supra that was a fleet vehicle. Do any of you know about these? Were they likely to be broken in properly? I'm looking at a 2022.
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I bought a twin turbo q50 as a used fleet vehicle. That thing had immaculate service records. They did every maintenance item, and replaced everything that was required. Broken in properly...ehh, not really sure how accurate that needs to be, as most cars are ran for a period of time by the manufacturer. I've never worried about that, personally. I just know to look for maintenance records. Fleet vehicles usually have a bad stigma, which means you can more than likely get a good deal on one.
 

Supra_UK_

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I occasionally see a Supra that was a fleet vehicle. Do any of you know about these? Were they likely to be broken in properly? I'm looking at a 2022.
Most likely not broken in properly, I think there's no need for in depth intellectual debates on this because we all know how people are, if it's not theirs to keep for a long time, they simply do not care about the next owner.

The savings are likely so that is a plus, however the real question you need to ask yourself is how much does it matter to you re: break in - and if you feel you may regret getting one down the line if you intend to keep it for the long run, then weigh that in carefully.

EDIT:
@Joebednar4 that does not apply to the B58 which is a relatively common engine, what you're describing is only done for very high end sports cars/engines normally, sadly not our Supra.

Also, @OP be advised you will soon get replies from all the experts saying the whole break in is total bullocks anyway, so according to them, just get one and redline it banging off the limiter right off the dealership parking lot, that's another way you can do it, it's your money after all.
 
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concept

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Thanks for your thoughts, guys. I appreciate all input.:thumbsup:
 

Joebednar4

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Most likely not broken in properly, I think there's no need for in depth intellectual debates on this because we all know how people are, if it's not theirs to keep for a long time, they simply do not care about the next owner.

The savings are likely so that is a plus, however the real question you need to ask yourself is how much does it matter to you re: break in - and if you feel you may regret getting one down the line if you intend to keep it for the long run, then weigh that in carefully.

EDIT:
@Joebednar4 that does not apply to the B58 which is a relatively common engine, what you're describing is only done for very high end sports cars/engines normally, sadly not our Supra.

Also, @OP be advised you will soon get replies from all the experts saying the whole break in is total bullocks anyway, so according to them, just get one and redline it banging off the limiter right off the dealership parking lot, that's another way you can do it, it's your money after all.
I didn't say they were broken in, I said "...as most cars are ran for a period of time by the manufacturer" which is still true.
 

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I didn't say they were broken in, I said "...as most cars are ran for a period of time by the manufacturer" which is still true.
Ok - sorry but I don't understand what that means then, so I may have misunderstood - Do you mind sharing what that means please?
 

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Fleet vehicles have their pros and cons. Most cons are that they don't get the "love & care" that most of us enthusiasts give to our cars from the start (coffee spills, scratches on dash and plastics, break in, etc...). At the same time, the pros are that they are usually maintained by the book (i.e., oil changes on time, brakes checked, belts and hoses checked, etc...).

Most people I know who have purchased fleet cars have done so with the specific intention of building up the car...which usually means they tear into the car and heavily modify it so most of the negatives are sorted out by the time the vehicle is completed.
 

gixxersixxerman

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Ok - sorry but I don't understand what that means then, so I may have misunderstood - Do you mind sharing what that means please?
As soon as a car is brought off the production line they are brought onto a rolling dyno, ran through their paces, some even have a "test track" to drive the car on and find rattle squeaks and things. If you watch some production car videos you'll usually catch it at the end. I believe there is a Mustang video taking the car to 110mph and the didn't "follow the break in" there.


Edit: you don't want to find out the trans doesn't shift into 4th or there is a misfire from a faulty plug when the customer rolls it out the first time. Also, all cars go through PDI, when I worked at Ford we had a 4 mile test loop to run the car through its paces, you'd be surprised at little things we found. That was back in the late 90's and my understanding is its not as common now as it was then to find a issue. Still, we never followed any "break in" procedure. car was ran to redline per instruction to make sure no issues and the trans shifted as it should. Tires were balanced to at least 80mph.

Here is one of BMW's final tests
CAR FACTORY : 2019 BMW X2 (F39) FINAL QUALITY CHECK l Regensburg Plant - YouTube
 
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PerformanceSound

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As soon as a car is brought off the production line they are brought onto a rolling dyno, ran through their paces, some even have a "test track" to drive the car on and find rattle squeaks and things. If you watch some production car videos you'll usually catch it at the end. I believe there is a Mustang video taking the car to 110mph and the didn't "follow the break in" there.


Edit: you don't want to find out the trans doesn't shift into 4th or there is a misfire from a faulty plug when the customer rolls it out the first time. Also, all cars go through PDI, when I worked at Ford we had a 4 mile test loop to run the car through its paces, you'd be surprised at little things we found. That was back in the late 90's and my understanding is its not as common now as it was then to find a issue. Still, we never followed any "break in" procedure. car was ran to redline per instruction to make sure no issues and the trans shifted as it should. Tires were balanced to at least 80mph.

Here is one of BMW's final tests
CAR FACTORY : 2019 BMW X2 (F39) FINAL QUALITY CHECK l Regensburg Plant - YouTube
No matter if the car was built in 1920 or 2020 a break period is always a necessity to make sure the engine performs optimally. If it has an internal combustion engine, a break in period is essential. Piston rings and cylinder linings take time to take shape. The manufacturers run them hard after assembly to get them out asapā€¦.but realistically itā€™s not enough time to properly break them in, it would be impossible for them to make any money putting out cars that late after production.
 

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Piston rings and cylinder linings take time to take shape.
That depends on a lot of factors. Like what Ra is the cylinder honed at? What material are the rings?

From my testing with Totalseal (headed by their lead engineer), a set of their standard tension stainless rings, cylinder wall Ra of 20, the ring is 80% broke in after 12-15 min of running an engine at 3000-5000 rpm. The remaining 20% is what takes time and is not nearly as important as the first 80%. Plasma rings like a Ra closer to 10 as they are a coated ring where you don't want to wear off the coating. That means they are technically broken in as soon as the engine is started.

There is a lot more to a cylinder wall hone (specific cross hatching) than people think. Got to match the angle and depth to the type of ring used to insure proper break in. I'm sure BMW did their research and got it right, well, besides the people who have oil consumption problems.

Long story short, break in is the last thing I would worry about on a fleet vehicle. If it doesn't burn oil, it should be fine. Also, we need another proper break in thread and oil thread.
 

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That depends on a lot of factors. Like what Ra is the cylinder honed at? What material are the rings?

From my testing with Totalseal (headed by their lead engineer), a set of their standard tension stainless rings, cylinder wall Ra of 20, the ring is 80% broke in after 12-15 min of running an engine at 3000-5000 rpm. The remaining 20% is what takes time and is not nearly as important as the first 80%. Plasma rings like a Ra closer to 10 as they are a coated ring where you don't want to wear off the coating. That means they are technically broken in as soon as the engine is started.

There is a lot more to a cylinder wall hone (specific cross hatching) than people think. Got to match the angle and depth to the type of ring used to insure proper break in. I'm sure BMW did their research and got it right, well, besides the people who have oil consumption problems.

Long story short, break in is the last thing I would worry about on a fleet vehicle. If it doesn't burn oil, it should be fine. Also, we need another proper break in thread and oil thread.
Itā€™s not just rings and Ra finish, itā€™s the block distortion that changes the cylinder shape at various phases of the thermal change. Aluminum blocks have a greater spectrum of bore distortion (unsleeved) than a cast iron block from cold start to operating temps to high temps. This spectrum of change plays a big role in how the engine breaks in throughout the many cycles. So, while most tuners will say to run the motor on a dyno very hard after a rebuild, their blocks are probably prepped for little distortion than an off-the-line motor from the factory. Ra finishes of spray lined bores wonā€™t prevent the rings from settling incorrectly in a bore, but letting a spray lined bore still needs the same brake in attention as any other engine to let all the moving pieces become ā€œfamiliarā€ in their environment.
 

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Itā€™s not just rings and Ra finish, itā€™s the block distortion that changes the cylinder shape at various phases of the thermal change. Aluminum blocks have a greater spectrum of bore distortion (unsleeved) than a cast iron block from cold start to operating temps to high temps. This spectrum of change plays a big role in how the engine breaks in throughout the many cycles. So, while most tuners will say to run the motor on a dyno very hard after a rebuild, their blocks are probably prepped for little distortion than an off-the-line motor from the factory. Ra finishes of spray lined bores wonā€™t prevent the rings from settling incorrectly in a bore, but letting a spray lined bore still needs the same brake in attention as any other engine to let all the moving pieces become ā€œfamiliarā€ in their environment.
I mostly deal with factory aluminum blocks, so I get the distortion part. That's the 20% I'm talking about. Engines run at operating temp most of the time so it takes many heat cycles to get that last part broke in. As for the sleeved part, you talking wet or dry sleeved? Not a fan of wet sleeves so when it comes to that point, it's straight to an aftermarket block so that you get a nice thick sleeve but it's still surrounded by aluminum.

I dont deal with spray line blocks so I can't touch there. I just know they are a completely different animal. I always figured those were more of a no break in deal as you would have 2 coated surfaces touching each other. Coated surfaces don't like wear. All the other moving parts will break in as needed, regardless of how it's driven.

Do b58s have a coated cylinder? Never looked into it.
 

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About the only upside to a fleet vehicle over a standard used car (as others pointed out) would be the fact that there is a fleet manager dedicated to making sure it's properly maintained and/or repaired. Of course, they're a human being so they could be totally incompetent at their job. ;)

If you're comparing low mileage late model cars, there shouldn't be much difference at all since even a private owner would have been under warranty and should have gotten any issues fixed for free. However, we all know how that sometimes works out... my 350Z had bad oil consumption and the owner decided to just Carmax it - rather than fight Nissan... so I got that "privilege" for a year before I got a free engine replacement.

It's not like brand new cars don't have problems, but if you have any level of OCD regarding wear and maintenance... it's probably worth it to save up for a little longer and just buy new. IMO at least.
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