News, Updates, and Discussions on next-gen A100 Supra

[PerformanceSound]

So, are you going to go to your failry reliable source and call this as the obvious bullshit that it always was?

Let us know when your Supra arrives please….so we can all mark our calendars to celebrate with you. Exciting time!

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[BMWAF]

Let us know when your Supra arrives please….so we can all mark our calendars to celebrate with you. Exciting time!

Can't tell if you're taking the piss. It's landed lol, so not too long!

 

[digicidal]

Case in point, Mazda sold around the same amount of FD RX7s as A80 MKIV Supra. However, the former can still be had in the +/-$30k range. Even pristine examples are not reaching anywhere near the six-figure territory.

Although the FF hype-train definitely did wonders for the A80... I'm thinking the prices on FD's has more to do with the fact that they've all blown at least one motor at this point... likely more than one. Tends to make buyers a bit more cautious than a powertrain that's practically bulletproof under all normal conditions (and even most abnormal ones).

 

[PerformanceSound]

Although the FF hype-train definitely did wonders for the A80... I'm thinking the prices on FD's has more to do with the fact that they've all blown at least one motor at this point... likely more than one. Tends to make buyers a bit more cautious than a powertrain that's practically bulletproof under all normal conditions (and even most abnormal ones).

The F&F did do wonders for the A80, but not in the sense that most people think. F&F didn’t make the Supra desirable because Paul Walker drove it, or that it raced a Ferrari on PCH, or raced a Charger. F&F did wonders for the A80 in just three simple words, “2JZ No Shit!” This opened everyone’s eyes. Gran Turismo did the same for the EVO, Skyline GTR’s, etc…

So, although F&F played a role in waking people up to the Supra, the A80 (primarily the mechanicals) speaks for itself.

 

[Bryster]

The F&F did do wonders for the A80, but not in the sense that most people think. F&F didn’t make the Supra desirable because Paul Walker drove it, or that it raced a Ferrari on PCH, or raced a Charger. F&F did wonders for the A80 in just three simple words, “2JZ No Shit!” This opened everyone’s eyes. Gran Turismo did the same for the EVO, Skyline GTR’s, etc…

So, although F&F played a role in waking people up to the Supra, the A80 (primarily the mechanicals) speaks for itself.

sidenote, both cars belonged to Paul Walker

 

[KahnBB6]

I am here just thinking out loud with NO insider info at all but.... even with the short timeframe between now and 2035 when internal combustion will be niche if at all sold any longer in *new* cars...

....Toyota GR invested a lot into developing that G16E-GTS 1.6L Turbo engine used in the GR Yaris and GR Corolla. It is a stout engine for its tiny size and only having three cylinders.

You can boost it up FAR more than stock. A true performance engine:

https://www.motor1.com/news/669600/toyota-gr-yaris-741-hp/

Building on the R&D that is already into it Toyota COULD (if they really wanted to) use that engine as the basis for a new in house designed in-line six for longitudinal RWD/AWD applications.

It would be the perfect evolution of this already great high performance I-3 engine. Leave its bore and stroke the same and you'd have a 3.2L. Destroke it a bit and you'd have a 3.0L.

This probably will not happen or have a chance of happening but OEMs have done it before and IF Toyota were to do this it would be a grand hurrah final send off to ICE engines with a final in-line six.

Granted their EV push, especially with Lexus first, is happening and GR will start embracing electrification of some models anyway... but it would be pretty cool if the ultimate timeline for the G16E-GTS I-3 turbo engine were to involve more than just that one cylinder layout that we already have.

....

Again... this is just me thinking out loud for another interesting possibility. There is no information out there that I am currently aware of which would support a move like this. But It has been done before in the past and so theoretically could be done again within the remaining ICE window.

 

[PerformanceSound]

I am here just thinking out loud with NO insider info at all but.... even with the short timeframe between now and 2035 when internal combustion will be niche if at all sold any longer in *new* cars...

....Toyota GR invested a lot into developing that G16E-GTS 1.6L Turbo engine used in the GR Yaris and GR Corolla. It is a stout engine for its tiny size and only having three cylinders.

You can boost it up FAR more than stock. A true performance engine:

https://www.motor1.com/news/669600/toyota-gr-yaris-741-hp/

Building on the R&D that is already into it Toyota COULD (if they really wanted to) use that engine as the basis for a new in house designed in-line six for longitudinal RWD/AWD applications.

It would be the perfect evolution of this already great high performance I-3 engine. Leave its bore and stroke the same and you'd have a 3.2L. Destroke it a bit and you'd have a 3.0L.

This probably will not happen or have a chance of happening but OEMs have done it before and IF Toyota were to do this it would be a grand hurrah final send off to ICE engines with a final in-line six.

Granted their EV push, especially with Lexus first, is happening and GR will start embracing electrification of some models anyway... but it would be pretty cool if the ultimate timeline for the G16E-GTS I-3 turbo engine were to involve more than just that one cylinder layout that we already have.

....

Again... this is just me thinking out loud for another interesting possibility. There is no information out there that I am currently aware of which would support a move like this. But It has been done before in the past and so theoretically could be done again within the remaining ICE window.

Read up on ESG scores and how it can negatively impact a brands image. It’s literally the reason the G16E-GTS was created. It’s why the GR Corolla is an inline 3 and not 4. It’s why the Tundra is a V6TT and not V8. It’s why the Tacoma is now an inline 4 and not a V6. The list goes on and on…

Toyota pushed back as much as it can this round to maintain a reasonable ESG score. Guess what’s going to happen in the next round? “Hey Toyota, you either need to make an even lower displacement engine or go full EV…or else.”

Trust me when I say, Toyota and its engineering partners are more than capable of building an inline 6 so good, it would put everyone else to shame. I mean, is the 2JZ-GTE not a more perfect example?….and that was done 30yrs+ ago!!

Let’s all hope and pray 2024 brings a better political climate than the one we have now, because that is the road block right now.

 

[KahnBB6]

Read up on ESG scores and how it can negatively impact a brands image. It’s literally the reason the G16E-GTS was created. It’s why the GR Corolla is an inline 3 and not 4. It’s why the Tundra is a V6TT and not V8. It’s why the Tacoma is now an inline 4 and not a V6. The list goes on and on…

Toyota pushed back as much as it can this round to maintain a reasonable ESG score. Guess what’s going to happen in the next round? “Hey Toyota, you either need to make an even lower displacement engine or go full EV…or else.”

Trust me when I say, Toyota and its engineering partners are more than capable of building an inline 6 so good, it would put everyone else to shame. I mean, is the 2JZ-GTE not a more perfect example?….and that was done 30yrs+ ago!!

Let’s all hope and pray 2024 brings a better political climate than the one we have now, because that is the road block right now.

I mean don’t get me wrong… I love the G16E-GTS. I love its use in the Yaris and Corolla and soon the 3rd generation GR86.

And I am expecting a new Celica that will be 100% EV. I don’t dislike what the GR and Lexus divisions have in store for EV offerings in coming years. Far more compelling than Tesla from the sound of what we know so far.

Yes, the 2JZ-GTE and 1JZ-GTE are phenomenal. I love mine. I’m sure you do yours as do pretty much everyone lucky enough to have a car powered by that lovely engine.

I guess my thought on turning the G16E-GTS into an I-6 really would just relate to GR division projects at this point…. since the Lexus brand is pushing into EVs faster than the Toyota brand will.

They’d have to use it in two or three models to make a business case. It’s just a long shot speculative idea. It could only ever be a last hurrah sort of thing anyway.

Although if by 2024 you’re suggesting a complete rollback of nearly all policies promoting EVs… that’s not going to happen. The entire industry is moving in the electrified direction now.

What could be interesting is if the U.S. gives the okay to carbon neutral synthetic fuels and hydrogen internal combustion. That would allow for *new* internal combustion engines to survive in niche vehicles alongside ever improving EVs.

And that’s one reason for my speculation about Toyota taking the G16E doubled up to easily make one of the most balanced engine types… which is in their heritage for prestige vehicles.

Mazda did their own I6 recently… an impressive feat. And if rumors are true about Toyota reworking the B58 even further that’s yet another plus.

It would just be an interesting turn if Toyota were to use that G16E engine’s basic R&D further as a final investment into ICE for special vehicles amidst the larger EV shift as an overlap.

As far as that EV shift goes I am expecting Toyota/Lexus to do some impressive and unexpected things with special cars using that technology in coming years that will positively surprise enthusiasts.

I believe Toyota and Lexus, especially the GR division, will succeed in actually making enthusiast driver centric EVs that are actually fun.

As for a new straight six based on merging two G16E’s together? I wish.. as it is a very cool thought.

However I will also be happy with whatever involvement Yamaha will be having in the Supra project going forward no matter what engine is used as the starting point.

 

[PerformanceSound]

I mean don’t get me wrong… I love the G16E-GTS. I love its use in the Yaris and Corolla and soon the 3rd generation GR86.

And I am expecting a new Celica that will be 100% EV. I don’t dislike what the GR and Lexus divisions have in store for EV offerings in coming years. Far more compelling than Tesla from the sound of what we know so far.

Yes, the 2JZ-GTE and 1JZ-GTE are phenomenal. I love mine. I’m sure you do yours as do pretty much everyone lucky enough to have a car powered by that lovely engine.

I guess my thought on turning the G16E-GTS into an I-6 really would just relate to GR division projects at this point…. since the Lexus brand is pushing into EVs faster than the Toyota brand will.

They’d have to use it in two or three models to make a business case. It’s just a long shot speculative idea. It could only ever be a last hurrah sort of thing anyway.

Although if by 2024 you’re suggesting a complete rollback of nearly all policies promoting EVs… that’s not going to happen. The entire industry is moving in the electrified direction now.

What could be interesting is if the U.S. gives the okay to carbon neutral synthetic fuels and hydrogen internal combustion. That would allow for *new* internal combustion engines to survive in niche vehicles alongside ever improving EVs.

And that’s one reason for my speculation about Toyota taking the G16E doubled up to easily make one of the most balanced engine types… which is in their heritage for prestige vehicles.

Mazda did their own I6 recently… an impressive feat. And if rumors are true about Toyota reworking the B58 even further that’s yet another plus.

It would just be an interesting turn if Toyota were to use that G16E engine’s basic R&D further as a final investment into ICE for special vehicles amidst the larger EV shift as an overlap.

As far as that EV shift goes I am expecting Toyota/Lexus to do some impressive and unexpected things with special cars using that technology in coming years that will positively surprise enthusiasts.

I believe Toyota and Lexus, especially the GR division, will succeed in actually making enthusiast driver centric EVs that are actually fun.

As for a new straight six based on merging two G16E’s together? I wish.. as it is a very cool thought.

However I will also be happy with whatever involvement Yamaha will be having in the Supra project going forward no matter what engine is used as the starting point.

I’m not saying they will rollback their strategy, but they will drastically enhance current platforms. Again, that’s if regulations loosen up some.

Yamaha will be involved….just need to find out exactly where.

 

[Bryster]

I’m not saying they will rollback their strategy, but they will drastically enhance current platforms. Again, that’s if regulations loosen up some.

Yamaha will be involved….just need to find out exactly where.

Will the next Supra be more rigid?

 

[BMWAF]

Unfortunately, as much as we all appreciate Toyota's commitment to ICE in the short term, it's a long term loser. It's a bit like Apple putting all their bets on AR while the world discovered AI. Ever used ChatGPT and realized Siri is dumb as fuck?

Developing brand new engines like the one in the GR Corolla and GR Yaris are a disastrous bet in 2023. If they haven't already, Toyota will begin shutting down these ICE side projects - yes the Supra as we know it will die out in 2025/26 - and like everyone else, they will jump on the EV bandwagon like the smart money already did.

 

[Bryster]

Would Toyota consider doing something similar to what Chevy did with the Z06, or is that out of the question

 

[GRMan]

Unfortunately, as much as we all appreciate Toyota's commitment to ICE in the short term, it's a long term loser. It's a bit like Apple putting all their bets on AR while the world discovered AI. Ever used ChatGPT and realized Siri is dumb as fuck?

Developing brand new engines like the one in the GR Corolla and GR Yaris are a disastrous bet in 2023. If they haven't already, Toyota will begin shutting down these ICE side projects - yes the Supra as we know it will die out in 2025/26 - and like everyone else, they will jump on the EV bandwagon like the smart money already did.

EV is not the only solution to carbon neutral; it shouldn't be as it's not even clean. 60% of electricity is generated from fossils in the US, 70% in Australia. Lithium mining is dirty as hell. Recyling of old batteries posts big environmental and logistic challenges. Not to mention the cost on upgrading existing public and private infrastructures (power grids, substations, installation of high-power chargers in service stations, units, apartments, shopping centres etc)

Smart monies have already invested elsewhere...slow minds are still in BEV.

New Toyota CEO Still Wants To Prioritize Hydrogen Over BEVs (insideevs.com)

The other point you raised about AI vs Siri is not relevant to ICE vs EV. Most petrolheads want ICE to remain. Many drivers who don't have easy access to charging would want and need ICE. EV's road coverage is still an issue for many drivers. The lengthy charging time is another issue for all drivers. Noone really wants or need Siri because. it is not useful, regardless of AI.

Many businesses will go under because of the reducing demand in ICE parts. Many people will be out of jobs or already out of jobs. This has a great negative effect on unemployment rate and social stability. The road to carbon neutral has to balance everything out and as a result, there is no one solution that will fit all.

 

[BMWAF]

EV is not the only solution to carbon neutral; it shouldn't be as it's not even clean. 60% of electricity is generated from fossils in the US, 70% in Australia. Lithium mining is dirty as hell. Recyling of old batteries posts big environmental and logistic challenges. Not to mention the cost on upgrading existing public and private infrastructures (power grids, substations, installation of high-power chargers in service stations, units, apartments, shopping centres etc)

Smart monies have already investing elsewhere...

New Toyota CEO Still Wants To Prioritize Hydrogen Over BEVs (insideevs.com)

I don't disagree with you in theory but the Hydrogen horse has bolted and the world didn't care. If Toyota is betting on Hydrogen they've already lost!

It doesn't matter if Hydrogen is better or even cleaner. EVs are perceived to be cleaner and are already firmly in the public eye. And in the public eye, EVs are also ironically perceived as the future.

Like the previous CEO that championed ICE, if the new one bets on Hydrogen I'd wager that he isn't going to fare much better.

 

[johnnyskids]

I know this is rather off topic based on the subject of this thread, but commenting on the whole EV and ICE debate. While I believe EV will expand in popularity over the next dozen years (I believe 2035 is the year that countries/industry are targeting to stop producing ICE), barring huge advances in tech over that time frame, I just can't see how it'll be possible to continue our transportation patterns and all switch to EVs.

The debate of how clean ICE vs EVs is something that people talk about all the time, but in reality it's the industry, politics, and propaganda that will shape what the public views as "clean" or "dirty" tech. It's well known that EV production, electricity, etc, has a lot of negative environmental implications and yet if you asked the general population they will all state that EV's are carbon neutral and a huge tool to combat pollution.

As stated above, smart people are coming up with solutions that will keep ICE alive and further limit their carbon imprint. If I was to bet, I would say that by the magic 2035 year there will still be ICE engines produced, they will just be different than what the modern tech is, whether that be alternative fuels, hybrid technology, different displacements and power adders, etc. EV's will be a lot more common but still no where close to being the main source of transportation.

The other thing that I would say is if the goal is to reduce our carbon emissions, there are a whole heap of easier and more effective ways at reducing that number down (an no I don't mean everyone getting solar panels or wind generators for their homes).

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