Siggs JB4 21 build

Sigg

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This will be my build journal, all systems focused around JB4 since 21s are mostly locked.

Goal is to keep IATS and charge air cool, and making bigger power using JB4 with 93 with ethanol and methanol combinations.
Meanwhile no CELs are wanted. All parts must not cause CEL

Current parts purchased:
BMS JB4
CSF Heat exchanger
BMS Water/Meth Injection kit.
SSR red dual bung charge pipe
Fuel-it Flex fuel Analyzer
HKS suction full carbon intake system
Active Autowerke Downpipe Catted
Magnaflow X Mod exhaust system

Installed: JB4 running e30

Waiting on all the bolt ons due to shortages but should at least have Meth kit, flex fuel kit and charge pipe in within a week or two.
Will update.

Stock performance thoughts:
Car is great out of the box. Not much else to say. It's fast but not put you in your seat fast. Not fast enough to scare my friends haha.

JB4 e30 Map5 stock thoughts: Not even the same car anymore. Pushing 22 psi with great results. Logs look excellent to me, verified with Terry at Map5 to keep going. These 21s target higher boost and jb4 allows for more aggressive timing in this Map. Car is substantially faster and smoother with and e30 blend. Can't wait till my bolts ons come so we can make some additional power. No plans for dyno on stock jb4. Just want my parts.
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dethred

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You're wasting your money going with ethanol and WMI. Ask me how I know. (And after I bought and installed both, Terry said combining them doesn't make more power)
 

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You're wasting your money going with ethanol and WMI. Ask me how I know.
Do you mean mixing ethanol w/ WMI? I've heard (in several places actually) that this is exactly the way to go with a locked ECU for now.
 

dethred

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Do you mean mixing ethanol w/ WMI? I've heard (in several places actually) that this is exactly the way to go with a locked ECU for now.
I got absolutely no benefit from 50/50 wmi and even straight VP M1 methanol. Dragy times were the same or worse.

"With E85 WMI doesn't add a lot of power as you already have plenty of
octane" -Terry
 

zrk

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I got absolutely no benefit from 50/50 wmi and even straight VP M1 methanol. Dragy times were the same or worse.

"With E85 WMI doesn't add a lot of power as you already have plenty of
octane" -Terry
I wouldn't expect adding meth to improve performance without adjusting boost. What PSI were you running before and after?
 

dethred

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I wouldn't expect adding meth to improve performance without adjusting boost. What PSI were you running before and after?
You're not understanding. This is with a custom "tune" by a well known JB4 tuner. It has nothing to do with the settings or boost profile. I am running max boost for the turbo before it starts to fall out of efficiency. About 25 tapering down to 22 in the higher RPM range (in 5th gear). Also IAT spoofing to get better timing. All of that was set with an e35 blend and no WMI. With 100% M1 there was nothing more we could get out of it.

As Terry himself said: no real benefit.
 
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Sigg

Sigg

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You're not understanding. This is with a custom "tune" by a well known JB4 tuner. It has nothing to do with the settings or boost profile. I am running max boost for the turbo before it starts to fall out of efficiency. About 25 tapering down to 22 in the higher RPM range. Also IAT spoofing to get better timing.

As Terry himself said: no real benefit.
I just want to be able to run either or. E85 not consistent where I live. 93 wmi or 93 with E or both for experimental purposes. At the very least I'll keep my valves clean and lower charge Temps. Also BMS has had many customers than run both. Either will certainly add plenty of octane. Are you on 20 or 21 supra?
My main little goal right now is to get this puppy to cool down and mitigate heat soak etc from back to back runs and fast sweepers where I'm pushing.
 
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dethred

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I just want to be able to run either or. E85 not consistent where I live. 93 wmi or 93 with E or both for experimental purposes. At the very least I'll keep my valves clean and lower charge Temps. Also BMS has had many customers than run both. Either will certainly add plenty of octane. Are you on 20 or 21 supra?
My main little goal right now is to get this puppy to cool down and mitigate heat soak etc from back to back runs and fast sweepers where I'm pushing.
The only way you'll get any advantage is to run IAT spoofing, which is flakey and turns off all the time. The platform is not the finished product. You won't see a single degree of IAT difference with WMI from the sensor, the DME won't recognize it either.

I'm just passing on the words of the guy who sells this stuff, would you like a screen shot of his email where I quoted him above? Obviously once the cars are tunable it'll make a huge difference with a custom tune, but JB4 is limited and you're just wasting money.

If you're swapping back and forth between wmi and Ethanol, you're going to have to turn it off and on as needed or you'll just be burning methanol when you do have an e85 blend for the fun of it. It's just not worth it, but again feel free to blow several hundred dollars like I did. FYI, Burger won't let you return it once you've installed it (also probably once it has arrived at your residence, I tried to send it back).
 
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Sigg

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The only way you'll get any advantage is to run IAT spoofing, which is flakey and turns off all the time. The platform is not the finished product. You won't see a single degree of IAT difference with WMI from the sensor, the DME won't recognize it either.

I'm just passing on the words of the guy who sells this stuff, would you like a screen shot of his email where I quoted him above? Obviously once the cars are tunable it'll make a huge difference with a custom tune, but JB4 is limited and you're just wasting money.

If you're swapping back and forth between wmi and Ethanol, you're going to have to turn it off and on as needed or you'll just be burning methanol when you do have an e85 blend for the fun of it. It's just not worth it, but again feel free to blow several hundred dollars like I did. FYI, Burger won't let you return it once you've installed it (also probably once it has arrived at your residence, I tried to send it back).
This is a fun car for me so I don't mind blowing cash at all. Have plenty of it to blow for this car. And yes obviously the JB4 is just an in between stage. The end goal once it's unlockable would be a BEF and use the jb4 for management. I have also emailed and talked with Steve and Terry quite a bit and have done plenty of research. I understand your upset about it but I'm just having fun and experimenting. You are right about the limited ability of the JB4 there's no getting around its limitations.
WMI is very easy to manage in the jb4 and turning it off is no problem. You can change from map 5 no spray to map 7 (WMI) in about 3 seconds so no biggie there.


As soon as these 21s are unlocked I'm going pure 800 and a BEF. Just logging my JB4 build here for fun and there will be a lot of noobs using JB4 as 21s sell, 22 etc. Have noticed it quite a bit already on the FB pages. Hopefully this thread sheds some light of pros and cons like what you have already found out and helps others out who are stuck with JB4 as the only solution for now.
 
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zrk

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This is a fun car for me so I don't mind blowing cash at all.
That's kinda what I was thinking/going with as well. A full-on meth kit will all the goodies is like what, 6-700 bucks? It's not exactly a ton of money, especially when you pair it with a $50,000 car.
 
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Sigg

Sigg

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That's kinda what I was thinking/going with as well. A full-on meth kit will all the goodies is like what, 6-700 bucks? It's not exactly a ton of money, especially when you pair it with a $50,000 car.
I dropped 7k in parts in one day I just want it to be good to go when the ECUs are cracked. For now taking JB4 to the limit.
EDIT:Not bragging I work hard for my money, just excited. Can't wait for these freaking bolt ons!
 

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You're not going to use Map 5 if you're trying to get the most out of the JB4, otherwise it's 100% a waste to do anything beyond a few gallons of e85 per tank. You're going to want to run Map 6 with a custom boost profile and duty cycle, which will require going into user settings remembering to switch the settings for safety and trigger mode, and if you're running the flakey IAT spoofing, that too. You're going to spend more money and time trying to find methanol as well. Boost Juice is a ripoff, but most people go that route because, like e85, M1 is not readily available to them.

When you forget any one of those settings, your car will go into limp mode or run like a pig. Please post the fun you have trying switch back and forth, it's more effort than it's worth. Post Dragy results too for fun. Best part of all is that the FSB for the WMI kit requires the JB4, so if the ECU's are ever unlocked you're going to effectively have a $1200 WMI kit. ??‍♂. I look forward to updates.
 
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dethred

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Also another side note, if you can get Map6 dialed in, you'll potentially have issues on track (assuming that's where you're ultimately taking things). The 1 gallon tank (only option with the P2uned bracket) will only last about 20 minutes on a circuit and then you'll have to refill. So you're going to be bringing several gas cans of M1 and distilled jugs, best case scenario. But also you'll probably get boost spikes and go into limp mode, or if the tank is low towards the end of a session and you hit a high G turn it'll starve the pump and trigger a limp mode there too.
 
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Sigg

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Also another side note, if you can get Map6 dialed in, you'll potentially have issues on track (assuming that's where you're ultimately taking things). The 1 gallon tank (only option with the P2uned bracket) will only last about 20 minutes on a circuit and then you'll have to refill. So you're going to be bringing several gas cans of M1 and distilled jugs, best case scenario. But also you'll probably get boost spikes and go into limp mode, or if the tank is low towards the end of a session and you hit a high G turn it'll starve the pump and trigger a limp mode there too.
How long did you have WMI installed before you decided to go a different route?
 

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How long did you have WMI installed before you decided to go a different route?
It's still installed, but I have about 13 gallons of M1 left, and no other car to use it on, so it's all still in the car. It's not as simple as disconnecting a few things on order to remove it. Who knows man, maybe you'll see more of a benefit. I just didn't see even a tenth of a second improvement after dozens of passes, and Terry's response was that I basically wasted $600+ dollars on it. Now it's added weight and more of a pain to even keep running. Next track day I'm going to either turn it off entirely or run straight distilled water so I don't have to carry around 7-8 gallons of flammable methanol in the car on the way to the track.
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