TOYOTA GAZOO Racing to commence sales of GR Supra GT4 in March 2020

[Jeff Lange]

Why not offer it with manual transmission instead, for purer driving pleasure?

Because race cars are about going the fastest, generally.

Jeff

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[KahnBB6]

Because race cars are about going the fastest, generally.

Jeff

^^ This. For a factory variant Supra specifically aimed at racing it makes complete sense to offer a beefed up and retuned ZF8 8HP automatic and/or DCT... or even a sequential transmission. In the racing world today unless the specific racing class calls for all entrant cars to retain a factory manual gearbox then pretty much all race-prepped cars with modern technology will be using a very fast shifting semi-automated style transmission.

Conversely the future production A90 GRMN I hope will actually have a manual transmission *option* since it's not going to be the *literal* race-prepped car that the Supra GT4 is but it seems that it (the GRMN) will be a closer bridge between "street" and "race" than the current A90's on sale. I will not be surprised if it, as predicted, comes out with either the same beefed up ZF8 as the A90 GT4 or a new DCT transmission for that reason. But a manual GRMN variant would be much more appealing to me as a "street" car.

However if the GRMN never gets a three-pedal traditional manual then some trim level of at least the B58C A90 had better before the end of A90 production... and no, a silly 200 unit run of A90 3.0L turbo manual cars in whatever market would not be a good enough effort to call it good.

The GT4 is an all-out factory prepped racecar based on a brand new vehicle design so there is no way it would be using a manual transmission.

Even a sequential manual transmission like the OS Giken OS-88 is likely considered inadequate technology compared to the race-spec ZF8 or a DCT design even though there was a previous A90 pre-production race-prepped show car before the world reveal that did include a sequential manual transmission and three pedals (the clutch is only ever used for takeoffs with sequentials).

 

[Jeff Lange]

I'm interested to know what transmission is being used in this car to be honest. Everything just mentions it being a 7-speed from what I can recall.

Jeff

 

[KahnBB6]

^^ I'm very interested to know too, Jeff. If the GT4 is supposedly a test-bed for the GRMN's development and both it and the GRMN will be focused on maximum track performance then I'm leaning towards it being a reworked and reprogrammed existing DCT design. The ZF8 is an 8-speed and I do believe that BMW already has used either a Getrag or ZF 7-speed DCT in a couple of its M-cars.

Given that cost saving through parts-bin sharing was part of the way this Supra's development began it would not surprise me if this were the case.

I'm not suggesting that what Toyota may be doing is exactly the same as depicted in the links below by any means but I did find it interesting a while back when I learned that this UK Supra MKIV tuning company had developed a swap kit to put a 7-speed BMW-Getrag DCT into an MKIV with their own custom programmed Syvecs ECU:

A world first!! Whifbitz Supra dual clutch 7 speed transmission ...www.garagewhifbitz.co.uk › news › a-world-first-whifbitz-supra-dual-clut...

 

[A70TTR]

ZF-7DT45FL AFAIK

 

[mas921]

ZF-7DT45FL AFAIK

Cool..a Dual Clutch!

 

[MA617M]

what are the advantages of a dual clutch over the ZF8?

 

[A70TTR]

Shifts over twice as fast, ~60ms vs 150ms.

 

[MA617M]

Assuming you can't tune the ZF8 to shift that quick without severe detriment to the clutch packs? also curious to see the mass impact

 

[A70TTR]

The ZF can def be taken down. I think one of the tuners on here had theirs set quite a bit lower for a while without issue, was just a rough engagement.

As always, the DCT is more the track preference and the ZF8 wins everywhere else (IMO).

 

[MA617M]

mmmmmmmmm rough engagement

 

[A70TTR]

Lmao.... I hear they make remedies for that

 

[JasonO]

Assuming you can't tune the ZF8 to shift that quick without severe detriment to the clutch packs? also curious to see the mass impact

You may want to read up on them as power delivery is handled differently. One clutch is typically odd gears and the other even gears. In a DCT you can be in the next desired gear without being in it per se. It is just waiting to be engaged to the drivetrain but already engaged on the motor side. Torque delivery can be pretty much uninterrupted due to the arrangement.

there are some downsides, but for a track car, the gains far outweigh the losses.

 

[KahnBB6]

With that DCT working in its favor the GT4 is going to be one hell of a competitive race car platform.

To that end, for the track warriors without $200k to spend on a non-road-legal car I assume this will not be the only A90 Supra we’ll see that 7-speed appear in

 

[A70TTR]

GRMN was discussed as having DCT even when I was there, but the issue is on road reliability. You can bump the cost of the car (tentatively set at $85-90k atm) to pick up some of the possible costs for servicing/warranty work, but there's still a possibility that it will end up coming with an upgraded ZF8. I could see it going either way, but given the GT4 is the development platform I think we may have our answer.

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