Say Adios to your modifications

[dethred]

I see 4 years of the Trump administration and 25 years of too much "news" has brought us together nicely.

Sponsored

 

[H2O_Doc]

Getting back on topic, it think this affects the non-track goer, i'm gonna mod my daily, type of enthusiast little to none.

What the EPA is trying to do is to make it illegal to modify a currently street legal car into a racecar.

Right now, in CA, if you tried to purchase a non CARB compliant part from some websites, they will actually cancel your order. Not to mention if you are running no cats, you can get pulled over and state reffed. Thats already happening and it hasnt really had any effect on the amount of people that mod.

Where i see this really affecting people are the people who have a dedicated track miata, or BMW or BRZ whatever. Those people who dont register their cars for road use because they will never pass emissions. The people who drive their cars maybe at most 1000 miles a year because it gets trailered to the track and then trailered back. The EPA is stating that those cars, can no longer be modified. It will be illegal to own a track only miata that makes 400hp that gets trailered to and from the track and see's at most 100 miles a month.

This will also affect the majority of our shops in our area. As the EPA states that it will be illegal to install said mods to any road legal car. This means, that any and all shops that currently make a living installing mods, will now just be regulated to oil changes and basic maintenance, something a lot of people just do at their dealership.

Currently, based on what i've read. The ONLY way to have a track only car. is if you purchase a car that is intended only for the track. So something like the Supra GT4, or the Ferrari 488 Challenge Evo, McLaren Senna GTR, would be the only cars available for you to purchase if you want a track only vehicle. This is why its such a big deal.

For those of you who never see the track, yeah this wont affect you at all. But it will affect your favorite mechanic and their shop, and it will affect the people who regularly go to the track.

EPA’s interest is to address decatted vehicles and vehicles with emissions defeating devices. Most mods are unaffected. CARB is another matter, but a state matter.

 

[PerformanceSound]

Getting back on topic, it think this affects the non-track goer, i'm gonna mod my daily, type of enthusiast little to none.

What the EPA is trying to do is to make it illegal to modify a currently street legal car into a racecar.

Right now, in CA, if you tried to purchase a non CARB compliant part from some websites, they will actually cancel your order. Not to mention if you are running no cats, you can get pulled over and state reffed. Thats already happening and it hasnt really had any effect on the amount of people that mod.

Where i see this really affecting people are the people who have a dedicated track miata, or BMW or BRZ whatever. Those people who dont register their cars for road use because they will never pass emissions. The people who drive their cars maybe at most 1000 miles a year because it gets trailered to the track and then trailered back. The EPA is stating that those cars, can no longer be modified. It will be illegal to own a track only miata that makes 400hp that gets trailered to and from the track and see's at most 100 miles a month.

This will also affect the majority of our shops in our area. As the EPA states that it will be illegal to install said mods to any road legal car. This means, that any and all shops that currently make a living installing mods, will now just be regulated to oil changes and basic maintenance, something a lot of people just do at their dealership.

Currently, based on what i've read. The ONLY way to have a track only car. is if you purchase a car that is intended only for the track. So something like the Supra GT4, or the Ferrari 488 Challenge Evo, McLaren Senna GTR, would be the only cars available for you to purchase if you want a track only vehicle. This is why its such a big deal.

For those of you who never see the track, yeah this wont affect you at all. But it will affect your favorite mechanic and their shop, and it will affect the people who regularly go to the track.

Still, this trickles down to the everyday enthusiast though. Companies like AEM, Haltech, MoTec, etc... build their products for track use, yet we all know everyone runs their products on the street. I mean, how else would someone make 1000hp from say a 2JZ powered car on the street? Impossible without an aftermarket ecu. With those companies being banned from making those products, we will be seeing less and less high-powered street cars. Now, 95’ and older (or non-OBDII) cars maybe able to get away with this because they are already emissions exempt in most (if not all) States anyhow. So, to those folks, it’s irrelevant. Yet, where would those folks get an ecu from? With visual inspections, certain setups are damn near impossible to determine if they have been modded (STU Hagen hybrid turbos on stock 2JZ).

I think we will start seeing more 3D printed parts that incorporate “stock look” with upgraded internals coming. Pure is using stock housings (not 3D printed) with great results, and as turbos get smaller and more powerful on output....I don’t think it will be an issue in the future. I do feel for the standalone ecu companies, this is bad news for them.

 

[Supra93]

Let’s not turn this into Potato Joe versus Trumplestiltskin. Both are brain-addled septuagenarians who shouldn’t be allowed near the highest office in the land.

Was either that or Trumpty Dumpty. Doesn’t matter anyway. The worst president in the history of the country...

I think you misspelled George W. Bush. If it wasn't for the events that took place during his administration we could have had an in-house Supra in 2011.



On a side note, I think it's hilarious how some people defend politicians on both sides of the aisle. The typical politician could really give a rat's ass about you. What they care about is themselves, money and power. With that said let's get back on topic. If you wish to further discuss politics, please do it via PM.

 

[diablo2112]

On top of the discussion here, please note that remote emissions sensing is a thing. Much like speed cameras, the technology has already been deployed which does roadside emissions measurements along with a license plate photo. It's inevitable that this will be more widely deployed. My advice? If you do mod your car, don't sell the stock parts. It's going to get worse.

 

[Captain_Kirk]

On a side note, I think it's hilarious how some people defend politicians on both sides of the aisle. The typical politician could really give a rat's ass about you. What they care about is themselves, money and power. With that said let's get back on topic. If you wish to further discuss politics, please do it via PM.

Yup, they only start "caring" with their poll numbers start to tank.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Was either that or Trumpty Dumpty. Doesn’t matter anyway. The worst president in the history of the country is out of office, things are rapidly getting back to normal, so all is well. Trump did accomplish one thing though, he managed to be the only one to ever be impeached twice. So he's the best, at being the worst.

Funny, that same guy also accomplished another record. He's the only one that got acquitted twice too.

Now that's over, I really hope the Biden administration don't clamp down on this because they're going to fuck up numerous multi-billion dollar industries. It's like the Trans-Mountain pipeline, don't kill off industries without preparing an alternative. It's like telling someone not to do something, and when that certain someone asks you for a way out you then shrug and say "well I don't know".

Hypothetical scenarios does not equal to real life. If the Trans-Mountain pipeline was killed off but there was a path for those workers towards "green" jobs, then that softens the blow by an order of magnitude.

You still have so many people being educated to be mechanics, engineers, technicians, and people are just eager to rush into the automotive and racing industry. The current administration's virtue signalling is going to wipe out America's manufacturing jobs. Automation is going to be the death of human progress and we're going to need to put this "progress" to a stop. Because progress, for the sake of being progressive, can kill a society.

There's also the case of emissions. Cars only produce a very small percentage of the world's emissions. Governments need to focus on manufacturing and how we also manage our wastes. Landfills and factories are a huge cause for our greenhouse gases to worsen and tear the Earth's ozone layer open. Come to think of it, America is insanely clean when you compare with other countries.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

Yup, they only start "caring" with their poll numbers start to tank.

QFT!

 

[H2O_Doc]

There's also the case of emissions. Cars only produce a very small percentage of the world's emissions. Governments need to focus on manufacturing and how we also manage our wastes. Landfills and factories are a huge cause for our greenhouse gases to worsen and tear the Earth's ozone layer open. Come to think of it, America is insanely clean when you compare with other countries.

It depends on what emissions you are talking about. Vehicles used to be a big part of NOx, SOx, and PM emissions, but the CAA act helped dramatically reduce that despite a huge increase in the number of vehicles on the road. you don’t hear much about acid rain anymore, and that is for a reason. And you can mod tune your car, just keep tailpipe emissions clean. It’s not that hard to do. Yes, you’ll leave some horsepower in the table, but clean air is worth it to some folks and it’s a shared resource.

 

[DesmoSD]

Guys, it's coming. Sleepy Joe declared it last year after his brain had a fatal exception error.



Those in California already know the wrath of the EPA and C.A.R.B. You can't even buy a cat-back exhaust and have it shipped to your address in CA. If you get pulled over, any modifications will automatically send you to the state ref. They will fine you and require you to remove every modified engine item in your vehicle. This is the first step as shops are heavily discounting exhaust parts to get rid of them.

Be sure to fill out the form to support the RPM act.

https://www.sema.org/epa-news

 

[vb22]

It’s all in good fun....it’s like when someone stumbles a few times going up some stairs and people eventually forget about it ??.

They found a fix for that.

 

[XtremeMaC]

Well we didn't see coal come back either, right?
Why because even if the emissions were relaxed, all OE's still sell in Europe. While they're trying to reduce costs to commonize parts, it goes against profitability to have one car for US one for Europe/etc. (yes they've always had variants and for sure they have LHD/RHD, but designing for aftertreatment systems isn't the same thing. They now have to find a place for urea tanks and have the customer replaced so often... etc. so less space to put stuff.. anyhow)

Sleep Joe or not, times are most certainly changing. Trump tried to shrug it off or delay it, but Joe or Kanye or whomever, can't delay it any longer if the GM's and Ford's already made up their mind about fully electric in 2025 regardless of the administration.. Tesla is leading the effort with many other Chinese/Korean companies heavy on electrifying. eV itself will cause many jobs to be lost. Less components on cars and the ones in eV's require more sophisticated handling, engineering, more expertise....

So, stop hating just on the administration.
Like hate scientists for not coming up with a fix. We need a global consortium like Earth's Health Organization to find a solution in 3 months so we can go back to V8's!

I'll create a petition at CryMeAriver.com

 

[gymratter]

 

[PerformanceSound]

On top of the discussion here, please note that remote emissions sensing is a thing. Much like speed cameras, the technology has already been deployed which does roadside emissions measurements along with a license plate photo. It's inevitable that this will be more widely deployed. My advice? If you do mod your car, don't sell the stock parts. It's going to get worse.

Good thing I haven’t touched a nut or bolt on my car yet.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

It depends on what emissions you are talking about. Vehicles used to be a big part of NOx, SOx, and PM emissions, but the CAA act helped dramatically reduce that despite a huge increase in the number of vehicles on the road. you don’t hear much about acid rain anymore, and that is for a reason. And you can mod tune your car, just keep tailpipe emissions clean. It’s not that hard to do. Yes, you’ll leave some horsepower in the table, but clean air is worth it to some folks and it’s a shared resource.

I agree. I also think the trucks that literally roll coal is fucked up and so parasitic to our beautiful environment. But the assault on normal ICE's when they have been the most efficient it has ever been is quite ridiculous.

It's just virtue signalling of the highest order.

Sponsored