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[dshandy]

@SS900 I see where you're coming from. I still think if Toyota decided to develop on their own, A90 would cost more than where it currently sits. People care about the badge on the car these days. I most certainly wouldn't pay the same amount for a Kia Stinger as compared to a German equivalent. I also won't compare the Kia Stinger to the A90. Toyota isn't going to make a fortune on the A90 and I don't think they will be pushing large quantities of them as it is for a select buyer. At the end of the day, the real money for Toyota stems from the large quantities of sales that come from the rest of their fleet. I'll save it for release day though and let performance specs justify the price of the A90.

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[ginsuown]

Maybe I wasn’t clear enough, my apologies. I am not saying Toyota shouldn’t ask for as much as a base Cayman, i’m Just saying they are truly milking it considering the cost savings they got out of this partnership. There is nothing special about this car that makes it a $60k car. This is a $40-45k car in my eyes. Hate to say it but what makes the A90 a better or more expensive car than the Kia Stinger for example? What makes it $10k more? Can you find where is the extra cost?

The main point I was trying to make is if Lexus can afford to develop the LC and sell it in the $80-90k mark then Toyota can afford to develop their own Supra and sell it for $60k, especially if they developed it similarly to what the A90 is turning out to be. Bottom line is they care way more about deeper profits than their own heritage. To be fair to Toyota, consumers are more forgiving these days as the idea of quality and heritage is becoming less important. Short term gain over long game is what everyone is playing today. Sucks for true enthusiasts but I get it.

There is no need to make up excuses, it’s all about milking it with this car.

With that said, it will still probably be a really fun car, no one is arguing that. This is more about a right way to do a Supra or a wrong way, although doing it wrong doesn’t mean it won’t be fun.

Fair points. After seeing a lot of the sentiment about the older Supra, I can understand and sympathize with wanting and expecting a proper successor to the MKIV, which as you said, I believe this car won't be. I'm sorry for how the MKV is starting to pan out with regards to that expectation. But on the other hand for someone who never went into the car with that mindset, I have to say I am still optimistic about this car.

I am definitely one of those consumers you mention that isn't in it for the heritage, but I blame being born in the 90's for that
I've never sat in a MKIV, let alone driven one or had the chance to purchase one brand new.

That being said, as a member of the younger crowd I still do have my standards on where I want to drop my hard-earned money, and while I also think that $40-$45k would be a steal, I believe that $55k still seems to be acceptable for a light-weight platform that was built ground-up for a sports car, and that supposedly has the same rigidity as the LFA and a lower COG than the 86. A tuneable inline-6 helps too.

If Toyota can't deliver on these points, then this car would not be worth $55k to me either, and I would probably rather splurge on a Cayman GTS, or just get a Miata and call it a day.

 

[twntrbo03']

I honestly think Toyota wanted to appease true enthusiasts at the start, but somewhere along the way they must have realized that was going to be a tall order to fill. Sure, an in-house motor and chassis would have been great, but obviously that didn't pan out for us... Which makes me wonder if the rumors about Toyota and Lexus butting heads and not sharing tech are true. As far as Toyota cashing in on the Supra name to the younger crowd I have to say I agree. Just take a look at the previous poster... no disrespect intended. I'm not in my 20's, but I'm 33 and can see it whenever I drive my car or take it to Toyota for whatever reason. I always get salesmen asking if I'm going to trade it in when the new one comes out or younger people asking about the new Supra and if I'm going to get them. The MKIV made a name for itself and is known as a legend among car enthusiasts and the general public know it as well. Although most of us on this forum know the formula that made the original Supras successful the average Joe just see's the name Supra and will think its the same thing, but newer and better which may not be the case. Only time will tell though if we are right or wrong

 

[SS900]

Just as a note, I believe the RC-F, the GS-F and LC are sharing the engine and some tech of the LFA was trickled down to the LC. I don't think it's an entirely new car, but it is expensive for probably creating the frame and materials to give it its shape and rigidity to begin with. If it was entirely brand new, I'm sure it would be costing 200k. Just saying.

I feel the outcry for the I6 was what made the partnership be used more than creating or re-using a Toyota engine.

To go back on topic, how much does an interior effect the pricing on the car and potential customers? I'm curious as interior never mattered to me and want to see what others think.

Absolutely, I get it. This is where I think Toyota made a big mistake though. Imagine a true Supra (100% Toyota) and the possibilities and opportunities that can open for new Toyota models. The trickle down effect can completely change how customers see Toyota. They can keep their boring cars and have exciting ones at the same time.

As a businessman I just don’t understand the logic behind their decisions.

 

[Jdmuscle]

Absolutely, I get it. This is where I think Toyota made a big mistake though. Imagine a true Supra (100% Toyota) and the possibilities and opportunities that can open for new Toyota models. The trickle down effect can completely change how customers see Toyota. They can keep their boring cars and have exciting ones at the same time.

As a businessman I just don’t understand the logic behind their decisions.

Here is why I think Toyota went with this horrible JV...

1) cheap AF
2) let’s justify it by saying we wanted to keep an in-line 6 in the supra
3) easy to walk away of it fails
4) cheapest way to change the brand image of making toasters and washing machines

 

[SS900]

Here is why I think Toyota went with this horrible JV...

1) cheap AF
2) let’s justify it by saying we wanted to keep an in-line 6 in the supra
3) easy to walk away of it fails
4) cheapest way to change the brand image of making toasters and washing machines

Yeah, it’s sad. In a way it already feels like they are walking away from it.

From a company the brought us the Mkiv this is a real shame.

 

[Spilner]

Yeah, it’s sad. In a way it already feels like they are walking away from it.

.

How?!

 

[MLG Tofu Shop]

We've been through this. Just get over with it. Stop regurgitating what has been said before.

 

[SS900]

Yeah, this is tiring.... back to waiting...

 

[elpadrino]

Absolutely, I get it. This is where I think Toyota made a big mistake though. Imagine a true Supra (100% Toyota) and the possibilities and opportunities that can open for new Toyota models. The trickle down effect can completely change how customers see Toyota. They can keep their boring cars and have exciting ones at the same time.

As a businessman I just don’t understand the logic behind their decisions.

I wish you would stop with the incessant whining. You know diddly squat about business.

The MKIV sold around 12k TOTAL! in the US over 6 years. And that's the one that's been elevated to cult status. While I am sure Toyota does want to please fans, it is far more important for this car to appeal to people who were children when the MKIV was available for sale and/or maybe don't even care about the MKIV. Most importantly, they need to make money on this to justify keeping it around. Or developing other cars in a similar vein.

 

[Jdmuscle]

I wish you would stop with the incessant whining. You know diddly squat about business.

The MKIV sold around 12k TOTAL! in the US over 6 years. And that's the one that's been elevated to cult status. While I am sure Toyota does want to please fans, it is far more important for this car to appeal to people who were children when the MKIV was available for sale and/or maybe don't even care about the MKIV. Most importantly, they need to make money on this to justify keeping it around. Or developing other cars in a similar vein.

So you think a 20yr old person that’s into cars doesn’t know what an MKIV is and is not expecting this car to be a proper sequel?

Think about what you just said.. a 20yr old is not in any fashion ready to afford a 60k car that Toyota is looking to ask for this car. If this car doesn’t appeal to the folks that know what a Supra is about then it’s DOA.

Person that can afford such a car is well into the 30s and yes there are exceptions to that rule. But typically in the 30s... and they know what a Supra is and what it represented in its hay day.

 

[elpadrino]

So you think a 20yr old person that’s into cars doesn’t know what an MKIV is and is not expecting this car to be a proper sequel?

Think about what you just said.. a 20yr old is not in any fashion ready to afford a 60k car that Toyota is looking to ask for this car. If this car doesn’t appeal to the folks that know what is Supra is about then it’s DOA.

Person that can afford such a car is well into the 30s and yes there are exceptions to that rule. But typically in the 30s... and they know what a Supra is and what it represented in its hay day.

I'm not sure what in my post suggested this.

I will disagree with you on the bolded. Car guys know about the Supra and what it represents but if we are the only target for this car, i'm afraid that it will fail. The average 30something making enough money to afford this car will not place too much emphasis on how true it stays to the Supra name. They will want a good driving car that is value for their 55-60k.

 

[PerformanceSound]

So you think a 20yr old person that’s into cars doesn’t know what an MKIV is and is not expecting this car to be a proper sequel?

Think about what you just said.. a 20yr old is not in any fashion ready to afford a 60k car that Toyota is looking to ask for this car. If this car doesn’t appeal to the folks that know what is Supra is about then it’s DOA.

Person that can afford such a car is well into the 30s and yes there are exceptions to that rule. But typically in the 30s... and they know what a Supra is and what it represented in its hay day.

I agree JDMuscle, Toyota made the GT-86 for this exact reason....to cater to the 20yr olds. The Supra is (and has always been) a "gentleman's" sports car...referring to folks in their mid to late 30's and up. 20yr olds in the 80's and 90's had the Celica's, Corolla GT's, and if they had family with money...MR2's. Supra's were "unobtainium" even before the F&F for anyone under 35.

Now that we got that straight, we need to better understand what Toyota will give us for $55-60k??? This is the ultimate question. Will we get a really expensive badge or something that will re-incarnate the Supra legacy?

 

[Modal170]

I'm not sure what in my post suggested this.

I will disagree with you on the bolded. Car guys know about the Supra and what it represents but if we are the only target for this car, i'm afraid that it will fail. The average 30something making enough money to afford this car will not place too much emphasis on how true it stays to the Supra name. They will want a good driving car that is value for their 55-60k.

The car already had a focus group test and people loved the interior of the car and consider it on par or better than the competition of German cars.

Considering how much people love interior and will not accept anything lacking apple carplay or android auto or certain seat requirements, I think this will appeal to many people once they step foot inside, Fortunately, or unfortunately, Toyota doesn't appeal to enthusiasts or else they would have been on the verge of bankruptcy.

Will we get a really expensive badge or something that will re-incarnate the Supra legacy.

I don't think it would be a flop, but it won't be to the vision you might want a Supra to be.

Just as a separate note.

http://blog.lexus.co.uk/untold-history-of-the-lexus-lfa/

The above was a good read on how a company comes together to sign off on a Supercar. Wonder what the meeting was like for a Jv between Toyota and BMW and how far they could go?

 

[Jdmuscle]

I'm not sure what in my post suggested this.

I will disagree with you on the bolded. Car guys know about the Supra and what it represents but if we are the only target for this car, i'm afraid that it will fail. The average 30something making enough money to afford this car will not place too much emphasis on how true it stays to the Supra name. They will want a good driving car that is value for their 55-60k.

I see you edited your post.. it’s always nice to not be an internet warrior and just talk cars. No need for personal jabs.. everyone has a point of view and if you disagree so be it. Doesn’t make the other wrong.

Ok.. some one in the 30s know what they want and what it means when a company is resurrecting an old name plate. It’s makes that person do some looking back at what the car used to represent (do some homework on the car).

Here is an example... 04-06 Pontiac GTO. When GM took a Holden (their own) and slapped the GTO badge on it and made some styling tweaks and expected to cash in on the name plate.. they failed utterly. Now fast forward 16yrs.. even though Toyota did more than just take a BMW and slap it’s Supra name plate.. they took a BMW to do a JV with... even if you look past that (more than willing to), they are not offering this car with a manual.

People that know nothing about a Supra are not even aware that Toyota is bringing it back. They’d look at it in the dealerships.. oh nice car. Oh wow.. it’s 60k plus the dealer wants 10k over that.. they’d simply move on. They won’t be looking to spend AMV on a car they don’t even know about or care about.

On the other hand.. people that know about it and wants to get one inspite of AMV want what a Supra used to be and not a BMW with a Toyota dress.

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