Why I'm NOT Hyped About The New Toyota Supra

[Modal170]

This car will come with a manual transmission. They aren't going to release a Supra and only offer an automatic.





You will regret the GTR and lose a ton of money right off the bat. Car is boring as hell to drive and the reason most people trade them in a year or so after driving it. I'm not saying its not a great car, just that the car does EVERYTHING for you and takes the fun out of driving a car.

1. So far, there's no hint of a manual and if there is, it will be a limited run of 500 vehicles. Maybe call it the GR M.

2. how does the LC500 and Lotus Evora fair against the GTR?

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[Jdmuscle]

nothing yet, thinking of getting a MT GT86

GT86 for your first car?

 

[redspencer]

2. how does the LC500 and Lotus Evora fair against the GTR?

The LC500 and Lotus Evora 400 will struggle to compete against a base C7 Corvette, let alone a GTR (unless you're inquiring about driver pleasure).

 

[Modal170]

The LC500 and Lotus Evora 400 will struggle to compete against a base C7 Corvette, let alone a GTR.

Hm, if we were talking about power. I guess I was going for more of an entire car. From a DD purpose and performance based driving.

Considering the Corvette has decades of R&D, I would imagine the latest model will have everything taken cared of.

 

[Spilner]

GT86 for your first car?

Pretty much, MT though

 

[Dc2bar]

You will regret the GTR and lose a ton of money right off the bat. Car is boring as hell to drive and the reason most people trade them in a year or so after driving it. I'm not saying its not a great car, just that the car does EVERYTHING for you and takes the fun out of driving a car.

I'll regret even more a rebadged BMW. As I said I already own two boring as sin BMWs. If this was actually a Toyota and not a Z4 rebadge, I'd be all for it.

If I wanted another dull BMW at the rumored price point, I'd get an M2 competition with a manual and 400+ HP

I track the hell out of my DC2 Type-R, and it's ridiculously good, regardless of power level. The thing is perfect in my opinion, even after having owned and tracked a tt mkiv (targa though) and a 911. I've taken the GT-R around the 'ring and is amazingly fun to brute Force around. The vast majority of people who get bored of them seem to be intent on daily driving them and being annoyed. That's akin to using a sledgehammer to tap Staples into your TPS reports. It's a mercilessly bad street car, because that's not the intent. I had the same experience with my time in an R8...it's lame as hell daily because the purpose it was built for, you're not using.

 

[twntrbo03']

I'll regret even more a rebadged BMW. As I said I already own two boring as sin BMWs. If this was actually a Toyota and not a Z4 rebadge, I'd be all for it.

If I wanted another dull BMW at the rumored price point, I'd get an M2 competition with a manual and 400+ HP

I track the hell out of my DC2 Type-R, and it's ridiculously good, regardless of power level. The thing is perfect in my opinion, even after having owned and tracked a tt mkiv (targa though) and a 911. I've taken the GT-R around the 'ring and is amazingly fun to brute Force around. The vast majority of people who get bored of them seem to be intent on daily driving them and being annoyed. That's akin to using a sledgehammer to tap Staples into your TPS reports. It's a mercilessly bad street car, because that's not the intent. I had the same experience with my time in an R8...it's lame as hell daily because the purpose it was built for, you're not using.

I get it dude! I wasn't implying to buy the new MKV... then again you haven't driven one, neither has 99% of the people on the forum and we still don't have a freaking clue as to what is coming out yet. As many have stated, we only have "unofficial" rumors. The car could suck ass or it could surprise a lot of people. I just think its stupid to doom a car before it's been released to the general public and not give it a chance to prove itself. Maybe the rumors of Toyota reworking the car for reliability are true and will change your mind about BMW... doubtful, but it could happen . If you are in fact banging the car around the circuit then more power to you and I could see the GTR as a fun car, but it still doesn't do it for me. For the money I rather have a Porsche 911 Turbo, but I'm also not a huge fan of the GTR so I'm biased. I find it ironic that people on BMW forums are annoyed because they believe they are getting a modern Supra and people here are annoyed because they think we are getting a POS BMW

 

[diss7]

Changes daily for me.

Have been as low as a 2, high as a 9. At the moment I'm around 7, as it's been indicated by TNZ yesterday that a release is "very close".

 

[SupraFiend]

You had some good points here, and I respect your opinion and perspective on them. Without going too far off track with the MKV Supra and onto trucks, I agree the major issues were related to improper rust-proofing and quality of metals. What most folks in America don't know is that the metal used here in the U.S. is of "lesser" quality than what other countries get....this also applies to other alloys, and plastics. Only the U.S. Military gets top notch stuff here....the rest is "ehhh." It is about where the raw material is sourced, and not about how the frame is "boxed." The LandCruiser, Tundra, and Sequoia are (if im not mistaken) built on an almost identical frame, with the tundra and Sequoia having an extended frame as compared to the LandCruiser. However, that's where the similarities really stop....but just goes to show that not all frames (even though they are nearly identical in design) are created equal.

As for the 90's era of cars, your right alot of people (under 30) are buying those cars and experiencing the pinnacle of over-engineering...and to those folks, I say "kudos!" because they will be better and smarter shoppers in the future for quality cars. My point was, those people (unfortunately) don't seem to be on this forum....and if they are, they almost all are not cheering for this new MKV Supra. Would you agree? That's why guys like JDMuscle (who own a proper MKIV...and not some swamp salvage titled MKIV like some other folks) and others are not too thrilled about the MKV Supra. Btw, who told you the Z32 sales were a disaster? The Z32 suffered an early demise because of U.S. economy decline, not because it wasn't a great car. As a matter of fact, the Z32 received 10 Best Car award all six years it was sold in the U.S....and....has one of the longest UNCHANGED productions of any sports car to date (1989 to 1999....offered only up to 1996 in the U.S.). It sold pretty well for most of it's availability in the U.S. considering it was at one point selling in the mid-to-high $40k range....in the 90's. I let you calculate what that would cost in today's money. Around the world, it still did pretty well (sales wise) considering it's sticker price.

I owned a 350Z, I was actually one of the first people to pre-order and take delivery of one. After two weeks of driving it, I immediately began to notice its flaws....crap interior quality, noise, rattles and squeaks, under-powered (compared to it's competition), etc... It really made me miss my first Z32, and that why after a year I sold the Z33 and have never purchased another post Z32 Z. I recently went back to a Z32 and every time I get in it, I appreciate the level of quality, detail, and engineering that went into designing the car. The 370Z has gotten better, but unless they offer some more power, the domestics are still a better buy...and that doesn't say much. I have gotten over alot of things with the MKV Supra (not being built in Japan, BMW collaboration, no manual, etc...) but the more news we hear about this car, the less attractive it makes the car.

We need something to WOW us....otherwise, like S900 said, "its just the GT86 older sibling" and not really a Supra.

You got some good points there too.

I never said the z32 was a bad car, I just said sales disaster here. Maybe it sold ok in its early years, but they canned it with all the other JDM greats in later half of the 90s so calling it a sales disaster isn't that far off. Only the NSX soldiered on...

Agree on the 350z. I was very happy with the formula they came up with, never quite warmed up to its looks, but absolutely hated the interior. I love the 370z, but even its massively improved interior is still pretty cheap feeling in places. But I am a die hard Toyota guy for a reason. To be honest, all Nissan interiors are generally cheaper feeling then their Toyota counterparts. Its never been Nissan's strong point.

Yeah, I don't know about the steel thing on the trucks. People used to say the exact same thing about why old Japanese cars are so rust prone. Then I dedicated over half a decade of my life to figuring out how to restore old JTin cars so they won't rust again and I realized all of their rust issues were simply from poor surface prep on inner steel surfaces before applying their inner body paint (this is why mk2 hatches and sunroofs rust), and inadequate seam sealer around their spot welds. Is North American steel weaker then JDM steel? Maybe, you'd have to stress test it, but it doesn't matter. Steel rusts when exposed to oxygen & H20 regardless of what country it came out of the ground from. So it can only rust if the paint protecting it is crap or the surface prep was shit. On my new 03 Tacoma with mint west coast, highway use only frame, all the paint is there, but its doing a lousy job stopping rust from forming around the welds. I'm going to drop the box and repaint it ASAP, and then keep it FOREVER.

No, I don't expect that people who have experienced the pinnacle of Japanese engineering that occurred in the 90s to be terribly thrilled about the mk5. That said, driving those vehicles will give them an idea of what made the mk4 so awesome. If the mk5 is a modern, affordable & attainable clone of the mk4, they may be tempted. People talk about why you would buy a mk5 if it doesn't improve on the previous car at all and the cost is similar, the answer is because 'new car with warranty'. Daily driving a mk4 is just stupid in this day and age. They are worth too much, and increasing in value every day, and oem parts are slowly fading away. If you want to drive one every day, the mk5 is appealing. And maybe in the long run, if it can come close to matching the tunability of the original, it will give us a fresh new supply of chassis's to build on, because even with the JDM imports, there are not enough mk4s out there to keep up with demand right now (thankfully there are enough 2jzgtes!). Case in point, every JDM mk4 TT in Canada that is over 25 years now, is going for 2x what they were selling for even a couple years ago (93-95s now eligible to be imported into the US).

FYI, I like the GT86. Again I wish it was 100% Toyota, and I pretty much hate boxer motors, but beyond that they managed to deliver exactly what the market needed and a worthy successor to the original (yes I've owned an ae86 before too). People who complain about the power in the GT86 have obviously never owned the original car, that's not what its about, never was. I'm ok with a big brother to that car, but it needs to be Toyota solid and a decent value bang for buck or its going fail.

 

[MA617M]

My 2c....

I'm optimistic about the A90, and am enjoying the investigation of hints and tidbits from the internet.

Once I did wish it was a wildly expensive, GT-R killer - but it's not, and here we are.

I've had Supras long before youtube, facebook and myspace existed. I only saw fast and furious 10 years after it came out, so I haven't grown up being fed bullshit from random opinions on the internet. My second car was an MA61 that's still in the family now, simply because it looked awesome. I bought my A80 simply because I always liked them - not for what I had read/watched/heard. I remember when the A80 was not a revered JDM monster, but sat in the shadows of unpopularity due to awkward styling (thankfully it's aged well) and the GT-R... But since then people have realised how much easier/cheaper it is to get reliable bulk power from the JZ platform than the RB platform. (Us aussies have been playing with them since 1989 - search Gibson motorsport)

But I've also had at least two of every generation - except A40 - only one and it's still a shell - so for me, the A90 is not about whether it's a worthy successor to the A80, but more about the next chapter in the series, because for me, Supra is much more than the A80. It's the whole lineage.

Given I've always tuned my Supras to have more track focus (nice, responsive turbos, good suspension and brakes) the direction of the A90 is exciting.

So... I'm excited to see the next direction of Supra. I don't care if it's different from the A80, because all Supras have something different to offer me. (A40, the shit one. A60, the light one. A70, the heavy but bulletproof one. A80, the monster)

I'm hoping the A90 is a knife. Sharp, agile, lightweight, and with a bit of tuning, hunt down 911 GT3s on the track.

If it sucks... I won't buy one and be happy with my set of Supras. If it's good, well, awesome.

 

[upnsmoke]

My excitement for this car has gone down a lot lately... some of my friends who are into JDM primarily have also lost a bit of interest. But my other friends who are into the Euro cars actually have started to like it, but knowing them, they will most likely still be attracted to the Z4 due to the BMW badge.
I have this belief, and its perfectly fine if people disagree, but I feel that people who are big european car fans love the image of owning the car, whilst the JDM people love the CAR everything about it. And all I can say is that when Toyota and BMW announcement was made a while ago I was skeptical as heck, but I gave it a chance... until the european wheel PCD adoption (I have a set of spare JDM wheels Work and Rays staggered waiting in my garage) which shattered me, then the announcement of 2-seater which pushed me to go ahead with my Nismo purchase I mean why spend an extra 20K for the same amount of seats, then the lack of manual pretty much made me look for other future Toyota cars instead.

I still have connections with Toyota so I hear murmurs here and there but I'm already looking forward to the next 86 force inducted hopefully and the MR2 replacement.

This Supra would be an option perhaps as a second hand buy one day if I do end up liking how it drives... maybe as a daily as I'm getting sick of driving manuals in traffic lol.

But I think BMW handcuffed Toyota a bit with this partnership, I feel that they gave Toyota the "take it or leave it" option.

 

[DevonK]

Just give me a version that is light, super agile with fantastic road feel, sounds great, and keep the power reasonable so the cost is moderate. 330 hp I6 at 3000 lbs for $45-50k CAD is my sweet spot.

 

[Modal170]

But I think BMW handcuffed Toyota a bit with this partnership, I feel that they gave Toyota the "take it or leave it" option.

Why call it a supra if it isn't worthy this late into development? Also, why would BMW also not provide a manual on their version unless they feel there's a reason not to do it? Neither party wants to commit anything legitimate on who did what or what the development cycles was like this late in release until now. We will have to wait till next year for something concrete, for some reason.

I also don't see a manual down the road for TMC unless it is marketed for teenagers because they have the money and those cars will never have supra specs. Also can potentially trickle it elsewhere in the lineup. But for bmw to not offer it is confusing and if they did offer it but not for toyota, then that would be am even worser look. I'm excited but less so because nothing new has been released and also because it appears Lexus is having a no corners cut approach that has me more hype

 

[corry29]

My excitement level is very low
Honestly, I'm still trying to get over the fact, that (in my opinion), 90% of this car is BMW.
I own a Scion FRS/Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ etc etc. And 95% of that car is Subaru. I'm still not over that.

My wishful thinking is that I wish Toyota would just fine-tune their 2GR-F(XX) V6 engine and incorporate a twin turbo setup to that engine
Ｈｅａｒ　ｍｅ　ｏｕｔ！！
At least following with history on how Toyota shared their 2JZ engine with Lexus IS and Lexus GS at that time, with the Supra having the twin turbo variant of the 2JZ. If not the 2GR, THEN at least have it incorporate one of their other V6 engines and fine tune it to incorporate twin turbo.

I mean am I the only one that thinks like this? I just want a Toyota

At this point Toyota said they want the 3 brothers back..So i can assume it's:

ＢＭＷ　Supra
Ｓｕｂａｒｕ　86
Ｍａｚｄａ MR-2?

(Since you know, Toyota has Mazda's iA, might as well collaborate on what Mazda is also good for, which is their MX-5...Toyota might just ask Mazda to move that SkyActiv engine to the back, and call it an MR-2)
If not Mazda, since they already got a thing with Fiat,
Then maybe Lotus, since Lotus did help design their last MR-2 (Spyder) so maybe Lotus MR-2?

Toyota I love you, but make your own cars godammit.

 

[SVHO]

My excitement level is very low
Honestly, I'm still trying to get over the fact, that (in my opinion), 90% of this car is BMW.
I own a Scion FRS/Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ etc etc. And 95% of that car is Subaru. I'm still not over that.

My wishful thinking is that I wish Toyota would just fine-tune their 2GR-F(XX) V6 engine and incorporate a twin turbo setup to that engine
Ｈｅａｒ　ｍｅ　ｏｕｔ！！
At least following with history on how Toyota shared their 2JZ engine with Lexus IS and Lexus GS at that time, with the Supra having the twin turbo variant of the 2JZ. If not the 2GR, THEN at least have it incorporate one of their other V6 engines and fine tune it to incorporate twin turbo.

I mean am I the only one that thinks like this? I just want a Toyota

At this point Toyota said they want the 3 brothers back..So i can assume it's:

ＢＭＷ　Supra
Ｓｕｂａｒｕ　86
Ｍａｚｄａ MR-2?

(Since you know, Toyota and Mazda already made the iA, might as well collaborate on what Mazda is also good for, which is their MX-5...Toyota might just ask Mazda to move that SkyActiv engine to the back, and call it an MR-2)
If not Mazda, since they already got a thing with Fiat,
Then maybe Lotus, since Lotus did help design their last MR-2 (Spyder) so maybe Lotus MR-2?

Toyota I love you, but make your own cars godammit.

While we are at it, can we borrow Mazda 2.5T and put it in the Tacoma. I own two Tacos of generation 2 (4.0 & 2.7) with bad MPG. Current model MPG isn't all that great.

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