Race Tracking Your Supra - Information exchange

[rwense]

Only KW can rebuild KWs. They don't do custom valving based on your requests. If you ever drive a car with properly customized valving, its one of the biggest eye openers there is in motorsports. Speed mostly comes from confidence and the right shocks give you tons.

I see, so other than MCS, do you have any other suggestions for 3rd party customized valving?

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[ABQautoxer]

I see, so other than MCS, do you have any other suggestions for 3rd party customized valving?

This is unfortunately where we all have bias like you might on say a car or oil brand. I trust just a few people to valve shocks. Shaftworks, Proparts USA, and MCS thru Karcepts. I'm sure there are others but I either have no or conflicting experience with them. The issue with the Supra is there is a lot less than other popular chassis options. Most OTS stuff I see is really in a puzzling spring rate range to me considering how heavy these cars are. I went with Shaftworks because he immediately identified substantially stiffer rates. I also consider Jon a friend since I've been autoxing around him nationally for over a decade and have sought shock advice from him before he started his own business, but note I have no affiliation beyond that as I pay full price and just recommend the good guys like him and Karcepts.

 

[tomfree]

ABQautoxer said:
Only KW can rebuild KWs. They don't do custom valving based on your requests. If you ever drive a car with properly customized valving, its one of the biggest eye openers there is in motorsports. Speed mostly comes from confidence and the right shocks give you tons.


This...so much this. Not a Supra story, but apples to apples...

I lived in the SF Bay area a few years ago, and was shopping for upgrades for my street/track E36 m3. There is a small Bilstein rebuilder south of the city that does all manner of custom valving for off-the-shelf Bilsteins (Sport, HD, and PSS). I test-drove his E46 with his "test mule" Bilstein HDs and some VERY high spring rates for a street car. The ride was very compliant...period...no disclaimers for the spring rates. When driven in anger, the car was extremely composed, GOBS of mechanical grip, and pretty forgiving of abrupt inputs.

Custom valving isn't cheap, but it makes a difference.

 

[razorlab]

My 2cents...

Here are the different struts / coilovers I have used over the years:
- Apexi
- KW v3
- Ohlins R&T
- HKS
- Cusco
- JIC
- BC
- Koni
- H&R
- Bilstein B16
- Fortune Auto
- MCS 2WNR

My least favorite where KW and BC. I was actually faster on track with $950 Apexi coilovers than I was with KW coilovers, everything else being equal on the car (Evo 8) I hated those KWs.

By FAR my favorite are MCS so far, with Ohlins behind them. To me, and how much I track now, MCS are worth every single penny to me. The valving is far superior to anything I have tried. They give a ton of confidence. Like someone said above, it's actually hard to upset the chassis with these coilovers. I have done some stupid crap with inputs or tried dumb lines that sent me launching off track curbing, and the car stayed composed.

If you are a believer in magic, MCS are. To me at least.

If you don't have MCS money, I would skip every other "cheaper" coilover and go Ohlins.

 

[rwense]

Thanks for this discussion everyone, I'm learning quite a bit here!

 

[RichSC]

My opinion on the suspension thing is if there is noticeable improvement in feel and overall grip, and lap times come down, then it was money well spent. Who makes them isn't a huge deal to me, I'm more concerned with how they perform and hold up to the abuse I'm gonna throw at them. And like the others said, there is a huge gap in that area for this car. You get 1k-3k range OTS singles, or spend 5k plus for MCS/JRZ/Nitron 2 ways.

That being said, if the CKS ones I ordered through Jackie turn out to not be a good option, at least that's now known and out there to benefit others. Would that suck for me? Sure, but end of the day, it's just money and I can always go to something else. I'm not planning on getting rid of this car anytime soon, or ever, really. But, I do trust his input and guidance on this platform for what I'm doing with it above anyone else.

Once weather here quits being stupid and I get everything on the car, first stop will be the local track to compare times to the Fortune 510s I used to have on the car. Aero will be the same with the exception of adding the Verus canards and cutting the hood up for the Sayber fender vents, and am actually turning power down just a bit for the trans and will be on 275 CRS instead of the 295 A052 I set my last PB on.

Who knows, maybe it'll pay off and be a good option for others to explore. On previous cars I've used Ohlins, HKS, Fortune, BC, TRM (E36), Tein, JIC and the Ground Control/Koni combo, so I do like to mess around with different shit to see what works.

 

[razorlab]

My opinion on the suspension thing is if there is noticeable improvement in feel and overall grip, and lap times come down, then it was money well spent. Who makes them isn't a huge deal to me, I'm more concerned with how they perform and hold up to the abuse I'm gonna throw at them. And like the others said, there is a huge gap in that area for this car. You get 1k-3k range OTS singles, or spend 5k plus for MCS/JRZ/Nitron 2 ways.

That being said, if the CKS ones I ordered through Jackie turn out to not be a good option, at least that's now known and out there to benefit others. Would that suck for me? Sure, but end of the day, it's just money and I can always go to something else. I'm not planning on getting rid of this car anytime soon, or ever, really. But, I do trust his input and guidance on this platform for what I'm doing with it above anyone else.

Once weather here quits being stupid and I get everything on the car, first stop will be the local track to compare times to the Fortune 510s I used to have on the car. Aero will be the same with the exception of adding the Verus canards and cutting the hood up for the Sayber fender vents, and am actually turning power down just a bit for the trans and will be on 275 CRS instead of the 295 A052 I set my last PB on.

Who knows, maybe it'll pay off and be a good option for others to explore. On previous cars I've used Ohlins, HKS, Fortune, BC, TRM (E36), Tein, JIC and the Ground Control/Koni combo, so I do like to mess around with different shit to see what works.

Not sure if you missed it, but someone earlier in the thread shared some experience they had with the CKS.

 

[RichSC]

Not sure if you missed it, but someone earlier in the thread shared some experience they had with the CKS.

I might have. Get one notification, follow it and there ends up being another page or two of comments.

 

[Deighvid]

I'm most likely going to bite the bullet and spend my bonus money on MCS lol. Fuckiitttttt

 

[FLtrackdays]

I'm most likely going to bite the bullet and spend my bonus money on MCS lol. Fuckiitttttt

Let us know how you like it and your fav setting! Are you (or your race shop) picking your own front and rear spring rates? Or considering just going with the race package? I know it’s got 18 settings for rebound control and 15 settings for compression control. So, I’ll definitely pay a racing buddy to hop in and give me professional feedback for Sebring. I love our track but it can be brutal on cars to say the least.

Anyone else considering this not aware, @razorlab has a great thread of his build with MCS coilovers. I couldn’t find much info on the specifics, but definitely worth checking out his build page. Phenomenal job and he’s doing it all himself! The best link I could find on the MCS settings were here:

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/track-coilovers.15325/page-3

Again courtesy of Brian (aka Razorlab). It really does sound like great coilovers, if tracking a lot.

 

[Rocksandblues]

I'm most likely going to bite the bullet and spend my bonus money on MCS lol. Fuckiitttttt

This is the way

I am pricing out some custom stuff too

 

[FLtrackdays]

This is the way

I am pricing out some custom stuff too

Dang…. Nice! Keep us posted ?

I run my wing at max angle ... maybe it is slowing me down - my top odometer speed was 163 at autoclub I forgot to reduce the angle and see if I would go any faster but I have other tracks that I can experiment with acceleration did seem to slow down around 155...

@Todday1 - What setup are you running for TT3 with weight/power/tires?

I am running TT2 right now on some toyo rr, 3360 comp weight - 435hp ... I would need to detune to around 360hp to run tt3

Focusing on reducing weight to go faster I really want to be under 3000lbs....

Circling back… was looking at the German dude’s wing (build page), which reminds me of

 

[Deighvid]

Let us know how you like it and your fav setting! Are you (or your race shop) picking your own front and rear spring rates? Or considering just going with the race package? I know it’s got 18 settings for rebound control and 15 settings for compression control. So, I’ll definitely pay a racing buddy to hop in and give me professional feedback for Sebring. I love our track but it can be brutal on cars to say the least.

Haven't fully decided yes but will report back. I have at least 1 friend out here in MCS so I'll talk to them too haha

Thanks for the link too! Going to look through that?

 

[Beevo]

After my whole CKS 2way problems I went with MCS 2way and I am tickled with how good they are from not only a compliance standpoint but a performance standpoint. The adjustments make a real difference in the performance of the vehicle and there is enough control to drastically affect grip levels to change understeer/oversteer characteristics. The pitch balance is very good even with very high ride frequencies. Damper travel is excellent up front and adequate in the rear which will provide more droop than most aftermarket sway bars will allow making transitions through center smooth and quick even when the inside corner might not fully be supported by the spring. The only complaint I have so far with my 650/850 spring rates is that the 0-0.5 in/s damping might be a bit low to handle low speed body motion for daily driving. This is most apparent when traveling on smooth roads at around 45mph where you might feel a small amount of wheel end shake. If I have them rebuild them I think this is the only area I would have them add control.

My buddy went from the CKS 1way after a few months of what I called “weeble wobble but don’t fall down,” to Fortune Auto 510s and the car is now flat and has actual wheel control.

 

[FLtrackdays]

After my whole CKS 2way problems I went with MCS 2way and I am tickled with how good they are from not only a compliance standpoint but a performance standpoint. The adjustments make a real difference in the performance of the vehicle and there is enough control to drastically affect grip levels to change understeer/oversteer characteristics. The pitch balance is very good even with very high ride frequencies. Damper travel is excellent up front and adequate in the rear which will provide more droop than most aftermarket sway bars will allow making transitions through center smooth and quick even when the inside corner might not fully be supported by the spring. The only complaint I have so far with my 650/850 spring rates is that the 0-0.5 in/s damping might be a bit low to handle low speed body motion for daily driving. This is most apparent when traveling on smooth roads at around 45mph where you might feel a small amount of wheel end shake. If I have them rebuild them I think this is the only area I would have them add control.

My buddy went from the CKS 1way after a few months of what I called “weeble wobble but don’t fall down,” to Fortune Auto 510s and the car is now flat and has actual wheel control.

Great feedback! Have you done any tracking with them? (if that’s what you were referring to, my bad)

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