Best Motoring: GR Supra 6MT vs. 8AT Touge Showdown【Hot-Version】2022 <ENG-Sub>

[DEupra]

Reminder to please take a deep breath and re-read what you wrote before defending which transmission is best transmission.

Interesting to note, the Toyota employee said he had been working on the MT project for 2 years, so seems development started latest by late 2020.

Sponsored

 

[BMWAF]

This is the second time the MY23 manual seems to have come up trumps against the MY22 auto. As they say over and over again, it's the suspension tweaks most likely giving the MT the advantage but it just goes to show that the single argument AT afficonados make (tHe At iS FaStEr) is at best, barely accurate.

At the end of the day, a minor difference in how quick the car is isn't going to deter those who enjoy driving a manual transmission. And by enjoy, I don't mean the "tRaFfiC iS tOo DiFfiCuLt" or "I'Ve dRiVEn a MaNUaL fOr YeARs aND aM oVEr iT," or "I HAve a MiATa" or "My OTHer Cars aRe ManUALs" or "BUt ITs mY DaiLY" crowds.. I mean the "If it ain't a manual, GTFO" crowd.

 

[Mark5]

Must be the only current vehicle produced where the MT version is faster than the AT, engine/variant being equal

 

[BMWAF]

Must be the only current vehicle produced where the MT version is faster than the AT, engine/variant being equal

Yeah.. I don't actually think the 2023 MT is faster than the MY23 AT.. but the point is that it is very likely the difference is marginal. And that margin is solely due to removing the human gear changes from the equation.

What's the bet that in 20 years time there will be people seriously arguing that self driving sportscars are better because they've been coded to be faster than a human.

Yeah, fuck that.

 

[AdamP]

All 3 drivers said the MT handles differently. It's easy to be like the 6-speed is faster but none of the drivers said the transmission is faster.

 

[kaj]

All 3 drivers said the MT handles differently. It's easy to be like the 6-speed is faster but none of the drivers said the transmission is faster.

Key point.

 

[BMWAF]

Key point.

Actually, the key point is that the MY23 MT appears as fast or faster than the MY22 AT. Of course the MT transmission isn't going to be faster - It's not computer controlled. What a ridiculous takeaway.

 

[Mr. Jonathan]

I wonder if a longer track would create separation between the MT and AT. Not saying which one would come out on top. Suspension vs faster shifting being the basis for what produces a faster time is an interesting comparison. If you’re building a car I think the edge goes to AT when comparing 22 AT and 23 MT. Upgrading / tweaking suspension is an option, not so much going from MT to AT. One question though..why not compare 23 AT and 23 MT? Both would have the suspension upgrade. Or they did and I didn’t know/understand because their speaking Japanese

 

[BMWAF]

I wonder if a longer track would create separation between the MT and AT. Not saying which one would come out on top. Suspension vs faster shifting being the basis for what produces a faster time is an interesting comparison. If you’re building a car I think the edge goes to AT when comparing 22 AT and 23 MT. Upgrading / tweaking suspension is an option, not so much going from MT to AT. One question though..why not compare 23 AT and 23 MT? Both would have the suspension upgrade. Or they did and I didn’t know/understand because their speaking Japanese

Because I suspect the AT would've come out on top due to its quicker shifts (and suspension upgrades) and since the MT is obvious point of difference, Best Motoring (and Toyota) didn't want to rain on that particular parade.

 

[6SPDA91]

That was an interesting battle. I know the AT shifts faster but the increased gearing and gear length (6 sp vs 8 sp) might be what's helping keep the MT closer. Less gear changes means less loss.

I'd be interested in seeing some track results.

Guess I'll contribute those when I make it to the track.

 

[kaj]

Actually, the key point is that the MY23 MT appears as fast or faster than the MY22 AT. Of course the MT transmission isn't going to be faster - It's not computer controlled. What a ridiculous takeaway.

Sure ridiculous if you are okay with comparing apples to oranges. The 23 is expected to be faster than the 22 because the car has been updated. The time difference in shifting between the MT and AT is going to be less than the time difference due to the rest of the car being revised. So, no surprise the 23 was faster. Who cares how the 23MT compares to last year's AT?
What a ridiculous takeaway.

 

[suicidaleggroll]

That was an interesting battle. I know the AT shifts faster but the increased gearing and gear length (6 sp vs 8 sp) might be what's helping keep the MT closer. Less gear changes means less loss.

That’s not really a fair comparison, they don’t top out at the same speed. The 6MT is gear-limited to about 190 mph, while the 8AT is gear-limited at nearly 300 mph. The gearing in the 8AT is more like a 6MT with two overdrive gears tacked onto the end. In racing conditions they’re not that dissimilar, I doubt the 8AT is doing much more shifting.

Edit: So we were both right. I went back and calculated the max speed in each gear for each trans. 6th in the 8AT is about halfway between 5th and 6th in the MT, so that part isn't far off, but there is a pretty big difference in 1st-3rd.

6MT:

Gear	Speed [mph]
1	38.9
2	69.1
3	103.7
4	135.7
5	160.0
6	189.1

8AT:

Gear	Speed [mph]
1	33.5
2	52.3
3	80.9
4	102.2
5	133.5
6	175.7
7	213.8
8	274.6

 

[Supra_UK_]

I wonder if a longer track would create separation between the MT and AT. Not saying which one would come out on top. Suspension vs faster shifting being the basis for what produces a faster time is an interesting comparison. If you’re building a car I think the edge goes to AT when comparing 22 AT and 23 MT. Upgrading / tweaking suspension is an option, not so much going from MT to AT. One question though..why not compare 23 AT and 23 MT? Both would have the suspension upgrade. Or they did and I didn’t know/understand because their speaking Japanese

They said at the end of the video that they look forward to doing the same test again trying the 23MT vs 23AT as well, and also hope for a GRMN version.

 

[6SPDA91]

That’s not really a fair comparison, they don’t top out at the same speed. The 6MT is gear-limited to about 190 mph, while the 8AT is gear-limited at nearly 300 mph. The gearing in the 8AT is more like a 6MT with two overdrive gears tacked onto the end. In racing conditions they’re not that dissimilar, I doubt the 8AT is doing much more shifting.

Edit: So we were both right. I went back and calculated the max speed in each gear for each trans. 6th in the 8AT is about halfway between 5th and 6th in the MT, so that part isn't far off, but there is a pretty big difference in 1st-3rd.

6MT:

Gear	Speed [mph]
1	38.9
2	69.1
3	103.7
4	135.7
5	160.0
6	189.1

8AT:

Gear	Speed [mph]
1	33.5
2	52.3
3	80.9
4	102.2
5	133.5
6	175.7
7	213.8
8	274.6

I like the empirical backed information in this post.

I guess I never thought of the 8AT as really 2 overdrive gears but that makes complete sense. I'm pretty interested to know that the actually theoretical to speed of the supra is with drag and aerodynamics factored in. That's just the data driven side of me that wants to know.

 

[Natedawg]

This was interesting. It's obvious the suspension updates were the difference between the years not so much manual vs auto. Every year they keep improving this car in stock form.

I'm surprised with the gearing in the manual supra 3.46 just seems like to much. to short. Maybe bmw only had two stock options the auto 3.15 or the 3.46? with out created another option? The MKIV supra with the v160 and 3.13 final drive top has a similar top speed to auto 8spd mkv.
The transmission ratios between the v160 and the mkv 6spd are pretty close to the same other than 1st gear being higher.

I'd like to drive a manual with the 3.15 final drive. I bet it's a little bit slower for drag racing/ 0-60 but everywhere else it would be nicer. road racing, daily driving, mpg increase, less shifting. ESPC with the b58 low end grunt this car would have no issue with a 3.15 final drive. I'd like to try one out. I wonder how hard it would be to swap out (elec/programing items)

That being said my old MKIV with the 3.27 gear was the perfect ratio with the v160 & 2jz powerband. B58 could easily go to 3.15 or somewhere in the middle. But 3.46 might have been a choice because it was already available bmw stock item and they knew it would perform well for the numbers comparision vs a auto 8 spd. The last thing toyota wants is these manuals sitting on lots not being purchased because of performance numbers.

Sponsored