To M2 or not to M2

[johnnyskids]

That's what 25$k extra dollars gets you
That's an extra civic daily driver

But I already have my Civic daily driver…$25k to some people isn’t a lot of money but for someone like myself it’s pretty significant.

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[Kolme]

I would welcome a few more interior options that aren’t just tied to some extremely limited special edition. Black is cool and all, but we have all done that likely multiple times and it’d be nice to have a second or third choice. I would love a racing green exterior with a medium brown interior.

Wait, are the two tone interiors only for special editions??

 

[johnnyskids]

I’d bet the G87 M2 gets AWD over the Supra getting any meaningful updates in its lifecycle. That’s not inconsequential. Depending on one’s goals, I think the M2 would present a better platform despite the price difference if one is ok with the looks.

I would also think that the current m2 has at least the ZF 8HP70 (if not greater) which is worth something.

Do you think that maybe the only way that the Supra gets an update is if the BMW Z4 gets some upgrades? What are the chances that the Z4 gets a big update, maybe an updated interior/tech, but likely not much else. Now if they could come out with a M version of the Z (as they have in the early/mid 00’s) then maybe there would be a chance for a special performance version of the Supra.

 

[johnnyskids]

Wait, are the two tone interiors only for special editions??

Maybe you Americans might have more choice but up here in the great white north our choice is either black, or one of the 50 special editions with the brown interior. There used to be a red choice but no longer. For someone who wants a fun color, the only option is black interior.

The only part of the new Nissan Z is that cool blue interior option it has.

 

[B58_ hwAyaq]

M4 spec drive train including gearbox. Tuning reduced power. No mechanical differences in the platforms. Brakes, Differential etc>>Same.

Source that confirms the technical specs and doesn’t just say ”ZF”? Not arguing - genuinely curious.

Do you think that maybe the only way that the Supra gets an update is if the BMW Z4 gets some upgrades? What are the chances that the Z4 gets a big update, maybe an updated interior/tech, but likely not much else. Now if they could come out with a M version of the Z (as they have in the early/mid 00’s) then maybe there would be a chance for a special performance version of the Supra.

It’s just a hunch. The 86 went 9 model years without a notable technical update. There’s a thread on here talking about a B58 technical update that the Supra may likely get. I’m sure we’ll get all sorts of “special” (cosmetic) versions in the next few years.

 

[RenRed2]

Source that confirms the technical specs and doesn’t just say ”ZF”? Not arguing - genuinely curious.



It’s just a hunch. The 86 went 9 model years without a notable technical update. There’s a thread on here talking about a B58 technical update that the Supra may likely get. I’m sure we’ll get all sorts of “special” (cosmetic) versions in the next few years.

Every review / magazine/ etc etc etc. The M2 has the M4 brakes/motor/diff etc. Good luck not finding it lol

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a43452901/2023-bmw-m2-drive/

or

PistonHeads:


In fact, rather than trying to explain what else the M2 shares with its bigger brother, it’s easier to say it is an M4, just with 110mm chopped out between the wheels.
Same engine, same eight-speed ZF auto gearbox, or, if you go for the six-speed manual, that’s the same one that’s available with the M4 in markets beyond the UK. I’m not overplaying the similarities, either. It also has the same cooling set-up, same brakes, same diff, same tyres, same tracks, same suspension design, the list goes on. Actually, there are some changes to the suspension settings: the M2 has stiffer springs at the front and softer springs at the rear to add some more yaw into the mix. Along with the shorter wheelbase, this gets the front to turn in with more vim, but the engineering team wanted the rear to follow the front dutifully, not spikily. That’s why they went for the M3 Touring’s rear dampers, which have a higher damping rate to calm the back end.

 

[Kolme]

Every review / magazine/ etc etc etc. The M2 has the M4 brakes/motor/diff etc. Good luck not finding it lol

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a43452901/2023-bmw-m2-drive/

or

PistonHeads:


In fact, rather than trying to explain what else the M2 shares with its bigger brother, it’s easier to say it is an M4, just with 110mm chopped out between the wheels.
Same engine, same eight-speed ZF auto gearbox, or, if you go for the six-speed manual, that’s the same one that’s available with the M4 in markets beyond the UK. I’m not overplaying the similarities, either. It also has the same cooling set-up, same brakes, same diff, same tyres, same tracks, same suspension design, the list goes on. Actually, there are some changes to the suspension settings: the M2 has stiffer springs at the front and softer springs at the rear to add some more yaw into the mix. Along with the shorter wheelbase, this gets the front to turn in with more vim, but the engineering team wanted the rear to follow the front dutifully, not spikily. That’s why they went for the M3 Touring’s rear dampers, which have a higher damping rate to calm the back end.

Maybe the better question title of the thread is to m3/m4 or not. Since they’re all so similar why limit the discussion to the m2?

Well, because in reality we all already chose the Supra instead of the m3/m4. The M2 doesn’t do anything better than the m3/m4, and in the looks department a dark colored m3/m4 is atleast tolerable. Sure it’s marginally cheaper after all the needed options, but not by much. The weight is basically the same (a chonky boy).

I think if someone wanted the “next step up” from the Supra with its good properties intact, I think we’re realistically talking about a 718 GTS or GT4. Not the M series.

 

[RenRed2]

Maybe the better question title of the thread is to m3/m4 or not. Since they’re all so similar why limit the discussion to the m2?

Well, because in reality we all already chose the Supra instead of the m3/m4. The M2 doesn’t do anything better than the m3/m4, and in the looks department a dark colored m3/m4 is atleast tolerable. Sure it’s marginally cheaper after all the needed options, but not by much. The weight is basically the same (a chonky boy).

I think if someone wanted the “next step up” from the Supra with its good properties intact, I think we’re realistically talking about a 718 GTS or GT4. Not the M series.

Budget needs/personal choice/ is the sun out. All factors for us car people to consider. Then you buy a Miata lol

 

[RenRed2]

Interesting assessment of the 'weight' obsession with the new M2. Personally think this gent is rather accurate. I was 95% on my way to a 4C in 2016 and parking it for winter stopped me. Had a 2 hour test and was very impressed. His take on this is good being one who has actually had a small lightweight sports car. I had 3 different Lotus Esprit Turbo's. Light is good and has a downside like all matters in life!

--50 pages of weight complaints, but I read every single one. BSM g87 just got scheduled for production and I have to fill the time somehow right??

In reality… BMWs have always been kind of heavy cars in comparison to sports cars. My OG 1 series was heavy. The F87 CS is heavy. And the g87 is heavy.

My last fun car was a carbon tubbed Alfa Romeo 4C, but swapping to g87 so my toddler can continue to grow into a car nut.

The Alfa was a little over 2,000 pounds and did 4.0s 0-60 with only about 250hp. Priced like the m2, roughly. It also didn’t have a glove box. Also no place to put a regular size drink or a phone. Paper thin seats. Radio sounded like it had half of a speaker. No muffler, who needs one. And no arm rest. Loved every mile.

I got a great deal on 4C when I bought it… why?

Because no one else actually BUYS the somewhat affordable small lightweight cars that we all claim to want, because of the compromises that come along with the affordable price point. Lotus has almost gone bankrupt like 27 times in the last decade, and Alfa stopped making the 4c with no follow up because it lost money on the project.

G87 levels of luxury in a lighter weight semi practical car are going to require a bigger budget… say, Maybe like $130k for a 911?

There should be a 50 page thread on how awesome it is that bmw managed to make a car perform like a 911, with an interior quality that’s just as nice, at half the price.

I’m personally getting a g87 because i think it’s a super well balanced value prop… heavy yes, but luxurious yes, performs well… yes.

Controversial part: I personally never got an f87 because I couldnt say the same thing about it… it didn’t really look “special”, wasn’t THAT much more practical than a real sports car (prior to having a kid), and wasn’t luxurious or practical enough to justify how heavy it was vs my cross shopping options (Lotus evora, Alfa 4C, 911). I gave a serious look at preowned f87s (again. I tried to want one, I really did) before placing my g87 deposit in October… and I still just couldn’t get over the interior quality for the price point. Maybe it needed some more weight or cost in there ???

Point being: everything’s relative. Yes it’s heavy. So was the last one - as long as it hides it well (like most bmws do), who cares.
If you want a sports car, just go get an actual sports car. Just be prepared to pay more for a luxurious one, or be prepared to not have speakers or a glove box. --

https://g42.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2006022&page=51

 

[Kolme]

Budget needs/personal choice/ is the sun out. All factors for us car people to consider. Then you buy a Miata lol

Lol Miata’s are pretty great honestly, the new 86 is as well! Just different things. Maybe we should be asking loaded 3.0 premium Supra vs 1LT C8 Corvette lol.

 

[Rocksandblues]

Interesting assessment of the 'weight' obsession with the new M2. Personally think this gent is rather accurate. I was 95% on my way to a 4C in 2016 and parking it for winter stopped me. Had a 2 hour test and was very impressed. His take on this is good being one who has actually had a small lightweight sports car. I had 3 different Lotus Esprit Turbo's. Light is good and has a downside like all matters in life!

--50 pages of weight complaints, but I read every single one. BSM g87 just got scheduled for production and I have to fill the time somehow right??

In reality… BMWs have always been kind of heavy cars in comparison to sports cars. My OG 1 series was heavy. The F87 CS is heavy. And the g87 is heavy.

My last fun car was a carbon tubbed Alfa Romeo 4C, but swapping to g87 so my toddler can continue to grow into a car nut.

The Alfa was a little over 2,000 pounds and did 4.0s 0-60 with only about 250hp. Priced like the m2, roughly. It also didn’t have a glove box. Also no place to put a regular size drink or a phone. Paper thin seats. Radio sounded like it had half of a speaker. No muffler, who needs one. And no arm rest. Loved every mile.

I got a great deal on 4C when I bought it… why?

Because no one else actually BUYS the somewhat affordable small lightweight cars that we all claim to want, because of the compromises that come along with the affordable price point. Lotus has almost gone bankrupt like 27 times in the last decade, and Alfa stopped making the 4c with no follow up because it lost money on the project.

G87 levels of luxury in a lighter weight semi practical car are going to require a bigger budget… say, Maybe like $130k for a 911?

There should be a 50 page thread on how awesome it is that bmw managed to make a car perform like a 911, with an interior quality that’s just as nice, at half the price.

I’m personally getting a g87 because i think it’s a super well balanced value prop… heavy yes, but luxurious yes, performs well… yes.

Controversial part: I personally never got an f87 because I couldnt say the same thing about it… it didn’t really look “special”, wasn’t THAT much more practical than a real sports car (prior to having a kid), and wasn’t luxurious or practical enough to justify how heavy it was vs my cross shopping options (Lotus evora, Alfa 4C, 911). I gave a serious look at preowned f87s (again. I tried to want one, I really did) before placing my g87 deposit in October… and I still just couldn’t get over the interior quality for the price point. Maybe it needed some more weight or cost in there ???

Point being: everything’s relative. Yes it’s heavy. So was the last one - as long as it hides it well (like most bmws do), who cares.
If you want a sports car, just go get an actual sports car. Just be prepared to pay more for a luxurious one, or be prepared to not have speakers or a glove box. --

https://g42.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2006022&page=51

Really well put and great points. I am a BMW fan and owner AND have also complained about the weight and size.
My e46 M3 would look small compared to the new M2 but is still relatively heavy for a 2002- 3400lbs! BMW has always built really strong and tough cars. I kind of see that now...

Us track rats are not the demographic of basically any car manufacturer these days. 99% of the people who buy an M2, M3 or 911, or cayman or whatever- SAY they track BUT may go once or twice a year. But it is only a weird sick tiny percentage of sports car buyers who track regularly.

even fewer idiots like me that have taken a perfectly good 50k sports car and basically destroyed it by ripping everything out that is not critical, cut holes all over and thrash it 3-4 times a month.
im the idiot!

I still am not sold on the M2 design. The previous was too boring. This one is over correcting style-wise .02

 

[Sharocks]

Truth!

What's it like watching your favorite car brand ruined by ex 335i owners?

AIDS.

LOL

 

[johnnyskids]

Really well put and great points. I am a BMW fan and owner AND have also complained about the weight and size.
My e46 M3 would look small compared to the new M2 but is still relatively heavy for a 2002- 3400lbs! BMW has always built really strong and tough cars. I kind of see that now...

Us track rats are not the demographic of basically any car manufacturer these days. 99% of the people who buy an M2, M3 or 911, or cayman or whatever- SAY they track BUT may go once or twice a year. But it is only a weird sick tiny percentage of sports car buyers who track regularly.

even fewer idiots like me that have taken a perfectly good 50k sports car and basically destroyed it by ripping everything out that is not critical, cut holes all over and thrash it 3-4 times a month.
im the idiot!

I still am not sold on the M2 design. The previous was too boring. This one is over correcting style-wise .02

The E46 M3 was not 3,400 pounds, it was 3,241 pounds. I’ll add that the BMW 1M was 3,296 pounds. The previous generation M2 was 3,417 pounds (standard car not the performance version). So that 20 years of compact M cars going from 3,200 to 3,400. Now this next one will be over 3,800 pounds.

Some people won’t care, heck some might prefer a bigger more comfy M car. But make no mistake, this generation M2 is significantly heavier than the previous versions and that will impact how it feels.

 

[RenRed2]

Lol Miata’s are pretty great honestly, the new 86 is as well! Just different things. Maybe we should be asking loaded 3.0 premium Supra vs 1LT C8 Corvette lol.

I think money per money unit of any kind the 86 is probably the purest, useful not a total compromise sportscar on the planet. Even has a glove-box lol Its a good value and good driving machine!

 

[B58_ hwAyaq]

Good luck not finding it

I know. Just wanted confirmation from real owners/performance companies. That trans is good for close to 800tq stock, I believe. Crazy.

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