To build or not to build?

[zrk]

Choices: How far does $20k get a B58 without E blends or meth? OR Choose a large displacement engine that will make 900 on 93oct?

These are not choices, these are questions.

20k doesn’t go very far.

Power needs a trans. Trans is 6-15k plus labor if you aren’t doing it yourself. That leaves 14-5k.

Assuming you Pure Stage 1, that’s:
$6k, plus shipping two ways, plus labor (if you don’t do it yourself.

Tune is ~1k

ECUtek is 700ish all considered.

That leaves you with 12k.

Decent fuel system, you’ll need port, at the least.

That’s 3k-5k, you’re done to 9-11k, and now you need a turbo, you’ve maxed out the stock turbo here.

then you’ll need another tune for the fuel system and turbo, assuming you progress slowly through the build.

Depending on who’s doing labor, you maybe be at your limit here. Or maybe not!

Good turbo kits from ETS or KLM or ~10k, plus all the misc shit.

not including decent wheels and tires, any suspension you want to change to put the power down, a torque converter if you ever do want to dig race.

Etc. etc. it adds up.

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[XtremeMaC]

**edit* didn’t realize you said C8
C8 only comes in a dual clutch, sadge.

Considered a C7Z, unfortunately they have cooling issues due to very low frontal area. It’s not out of the cards though!

You don't like dual clutch, because laggy? No torque converter ?

Not quite understanding you to be honest. You're at 36K. No mods=max 400hp.
Now you want faster, like 700+.
No track, no drag... Use as GT... Maybe target 650 first?

We surely can use more power but how do you get excitement ?
Is it the speed, the noise, vibration ?? Maybe you want a V8 or a whiny supercharger ?

Serious question. Tried a Tesla ? It's motorcycle fast, but no noise..

Tried any "shittier" less poised, more excitement tuned cars?
Supra is GT and well balanced, no drama even at 160mph.. Maybe that's not giving you the excitement.

Tried a Hellcat?

 

[Jmanlevan]

You don't like dual clutch, because laggy? No torque converter ?

Not quite understanding you to be honest. You're at 36K. No mods=max 400hp.
Now you want faster, like 700+.
No track, no drag... Use as GT... Maybe target 650 first?

We surely can use more power but how do you get excitement ?
Is it the speed, the noise, vibration ?? Maybe you want a V8 or a whiny supercharger ?

Serious question. Tried a Tesla ? It's motorcycle fast, but no noise..

Tried any "shittier" less poised, more excitement tuned cars?
Supra is GT and well balanced, no drama even at 160mph.. Maybe that's not giving you the excitement.

Tried a Hellcat?

Yeah, I'm not really quite understanding him either. Says he is looking to primarily have something really fast that is a GT/road trip type car.

A ZL1 1LE Camaro is definitely not that. Yes it is fast, but a GT/road trip car it is not.

OP, I think you already know in your heart that the Supra isn't what you yearn for more anymore and that is okay. I think dumping a bunch of money into the platform isn't going to solve your issue, and like Zach said, it adds up and is a seemingly endless process. You can always chase more power in any platform. And let's be real, no matter what car you get, even if it is "fast as fuck" it's never going to live up to your sense of fast since you claim to be ruined by litre bikes...which I can understand (I've owned fast motorcycles in the past too). I think you need to be more honest with yourself about what you truly want and what you're looking for. Heres the thing...If you truly want a good GT/road trip car, I don't know why you need something with gobs of power unless you're truly fully sending it during an entire road trip--which I doubt is the case. Even if you had 6-700whp in the Supra, how often are you actually going to be utilizing that full amount of power as a GT road trip car since you claim to not drag or track it? I doubt you would rarely go above the stock 382 in that use case and if you did it wouldn't be very often. And XtremeMac above brings up some good points. You should ask yourself what you like the most in terms of sense of speed and try and find a car to match that. In any case, I hope you find what you're looking for! Lots of cool cars out there. Keep us posted on what you decide to go with. Good luck ??

 

[Jesse DaBears]

Youll need octane not matter what you do. Cant be done on 93. Pick your posion, go with a flex fuel tune and be able to run 93 and then when you want add the e85 youll get to your power goals.

Simple build.

Jacks750 - $2300
- Labor 1,500
EOS PI Plate + Injectors + PnP Reflex and FF - 3100
- Install $1,000
LPFP $ 1200
- Install - $750
Femto Unlock + BM3 License and Custom Rom + Custom Sameh Tuning - $2800
Daw Turbo - $3100
Install - $1000

Total with High end of labor prices
$16,750

Likely price getting everything for parts through www.1FastSupra.com (DM ME) $10,700 + shipping cost.

So for under 15K I can get you to that 700+ HP marker .

 

[D3ad_Hand]

I appreciate the info, I’m well read on the B58 and what is possible, I’m almost hoping it’s something that it really isn’t.
A top mount that makes 700-800 on 93oct is a lag fest in a car that already has a low rev limit. The charge volume and timing of ethanol is what really makes the B58 hang with the greats.

I mean you said it yourself. Ethanol is what makes this engine shine, thats why I said get a flex fuel kit. So that when you can you load up on Ethanol and not worry about how much gas is left or trying to finish the gas in the tank first then fueling up. And from the name a big turbo kit, you can't expect to not have some lag at the very least.

 

[humblemoto]

Wow this blew up, thank you for the replies!

This isn’t a sob story, grateful I have the opportunity to have the Supra, I didn’t come from means and believe that’s why I’m struggling to justify it as “enough” from a financial/emotional but it isn’t hitting the mark in the technical/logistical.

Humans are funny and some of these contradictions are real. Nobody “needs” more power, I’m not advocating for “Compton Speedway” behavior. I do enjoy the four second 60-130 achievable in a bike and want that in a GT car I can share with friends and family. My goal is sharing litre bike acceleration in a moderately comfortable car. I like the feeling of endless power and not throwing my drivetrain on the ground from launches. I figure 1200hp in a 3600-4000lb car is almost bike fast.

Took a Plaid out, hilarious acceleration but no fizz or driver engagement.
A lot of amazing autos or dual clutch cars but what I like tends to be stupidly expensive and out of reach, Deman Caymans or GT4RS and they are more track and less GT.

ZL1 1LE is definitely not GT compared to the base ZL1, the spool dampers and not having the mag ride. I do like that is has a firm ride, when I say GT I’m not talking Hellcat/Mercedes soft. The vibes and firmness brings excitement to the drive while being streetable for my summer road trips. A dog box sequential and poly mounted drivetrain is too far away from GT for me.
I believe the 1LE stuck with me because it was insanely capable in stock trim, 305/325 factory rubbers, 1.2g on the slip pad is hilarious while not being a full blown track car. Full weight and Apple CarPlay. The second major reason was the “cheap” power. I called some of the best LS/LT shops like LMR/LMP/Vengeance and $40k over a few years puts these cars in 1200hp land on 93oct reliably.

i actually looked at all the pony cars, the Hellcat is just too fat even if it’s the best GT. The GT350 has the revs I love but the chassis isn’t nearly as dynamic. The Camaro will deliver the kind of speeds I want in a safe and “affordable” way.

I posted this to get feedback, I definitely convinced myself the Camaro is my solution but won’t go blindly into that car like I did my Supra. For the guys listing builds, keep it up. Expanded budget would be $40k assuming a couple years development. Let me give you my dream Supra;
The size and weight I love
4ish second 60-130s, full interior with a guest
Revs to 8k so we get the sound and vibes (revs = emotion and horsepower)
Amazing area under the curve, tractable high horsepower
Minimal drivetrain mods to keep factory drivability.
93oct so it delivers no matter where I drive it.

I think my problem is a displacement problem, big engines do what I want more cheaply. I went into the B58 thinking it would be a 2J, it isn’t. It’s based on a diesel so it doesn’t spin, without revs it will always have a high torque low horsepower bias.

 

[humblemoto]

Youll need octane not matter what you do. Cant be done on 93. Pick your posion, go with a flex fuel tune and be able to run 93 and then when you want add the e85 youll get to your power goals.

Simple build.

Jacks750 - $2300
- Labor 1,500
EOS PI Plate + Injectors + PnP Reflex and FF - 3100
- Install $1,000
LPFP $ 1200
- Install - $750
Femto Unlock + BM3 License and Custom Rom + Custom Sameh Tuning - $2800
Daw Turbo - $3100
Install - $1000

Total with High end of labor prices
$16,750

Likely price getting everything for parts through www.1FastSupra.com (DM ME) $10,700 + shipping cost.

So for under 15K I can get you to that 700+ HP marker .

DM’d

 

[kehvin]

Wow this blew up, thank you for the replies!

This isn’t a sob story, grateful I have the opportunity to have the Supra, I didn’t come from means and believe that’s why I’m struggling to justify it as “enough” from a financial/emotional but it isn’t hitting the mark in the technical/logistical.

Humans are funny and some of these contradictions are real. Nobody “needs” more power, I’m not advocating for “Compton Speedway” behavior. I do enjoy the four second 60-130 achievable in a bike and want that in a GT car I can share with friends and family. My goal is sharing litre bike acceleration in a moderately comfortable car. I like the feeling of endless power and not throwing my drivetrain on the ground from launches. I figure 1200hp in a 3600-4000lb car is almost bike fast.

Took a Plaid out, hilarious acceleration but no fizz or driver engagement.
A lot of amazing autos or dual clutch cars but what I like tends to be stupidly expensive and out of reach, Deman Caymans or GT4RS and they are more track and less GT.

ZL1 1LE is definitely not GT compared to the base ZL1, the spool dampers and not having the mag ride. I do like that is has a firm ride, when I say GT I’m not talking Hellcat/Mercedes soft. The vibes and firmness brings excitement to the drive while being streetable for my summer road trips. A dog box sequential and poly mounted drivetrain is too far away from GT for me.
I believe the 1LE stuck with me because it was insanely capable in stock trim, 305/325 factory rubbers, 1.2g on the slip pad is hilarious while not being a full blown track car. Full weight and Apple CarPlay. The second major reason was the “cheap” power. I called some of the best LS/LT shops like LMR/LMP/Vengeance and $40k over a few years puts these cars in 1200hp land on 93oct reliably.

i actually looked at all the pony cars, the Hellcat is just too fat even if it’s the best GT. The GT350 has the revs I love but the chassis isn’t nearly as dynamic. The Camaro will deliver the kind of speeds I want in a safe and “affordable” way.

I posted this to get feedback, I definitely convinced myself the Camaro is my solution but won’t go blindly into that car like I did my Supra. For the guys listing builds, keep it up. Expanded budget would be $40k assuming a couple years development. Let me give you my dream Supra;
The size and weight I love
4ish second 60-130s, full interior with a guest
Revs to 8k so we get the sound and vibes (revs = emotion and horsepower)
Amazing area under the curve, tractable high horsepower
Minimal drivetrain mods to keep factory drivability.
93oct so it delivers no matter where I drive it.

I think my problem is a displacement problem, big engines do what I want more cheaply. I went into the B58 thinking it would be a 2J, it isn’t. It’s based on a diesel so it doesn’t spin, without revs it will always have a high torque low horsepower bias.

From the research I’ve done and the builds I’ve looked into you can only make around 600hp on 93 with a big turbo like a 6466 or 6870. With 40k you can definitely get into the 700-900hp range in the Supra and be very fast. Then again you mention LMP and their Camaros are also very fast. Apparently one of their stages is able to beat a 1000hp Supra but that was a street race.

I don’t get why you won’t just go full flex fuel unless its not available for you. I was the same way at one point only wanting to make big power on 93 but with BM3’s new CustomROM that supports flex fuel, I just went with that.

Edit: I feel as if you got bored with the car and want something new and think making the Supra faster will give you the feeling of driving a new car. You’ll just be burning money at this point for some dopamine rush.

 

[D3ad_Hand]

The second major reason was the “cheap” power. I called some of the best LS/LT shops like LMR/LMP/Vengeance and $40k over a few years puts these cars in 1200hp land on 93oct reliably.

Look I know these shops have a reputation to keep and are good at modding these cars. But you can't mod and be reliable at the same time. Especially if you're pushing 1200hp. Bolt ons? yes sure that can be done reliably with a good tuner. But 1200hp and reliable can never be in the same sentence.

cars better than ZL1 (imo):
GT500, R35 GT-R, C7 ZR1/Z06, M3/M4, the best one you should really consider M5.

 

[humblemoto]

Look I know these shops have a reputation to keep and are good at modding these cars. But you can't mod and be reliable at the same time. Especially if you're pushing 1200hp. Bolt ons? yes sure that can be done reliably with a good tuner. But 1200hp and reliable can never be in the same sentence.

cars better than ZL1 (imo):
GT500, R35 GT-R, C7 ZR1/Z06, M3/M4, the best one you should really consider M5.

Those 1200hp builds still have headroom, displacement is no joke. Those same builds with E85 and meth make 1500hp.
I drive 7500ish highway miles every summer so not a huge duty cycle other than the 60-130 pulls but I do a lot of them.

I haven’t given the S68 enough attention, I owned a E60 M5 (S85b50) with headers and tune so I’m a sucker for revs and how they handle insane speeds with ease.

 

[humblemoto]

Photos for some giggles, I destroyed the SMG III trans and rebuilt it and did the adaptions myself, not fun!

 

[D3ad_Hand]

I haven’t given the S68 enough attention, I owned a E60 M5 (S85b50) with headers and tune so I’m a sucker for revs and how they handle insane speeds with ease.

If it's high revs, why are you looking at a supercharged engine. Turbo's always have it better at the top end.

 

[humblemoto]

If it's high revs, why are you looking at a supercharged engine. Turbo's always have it better at the top end.

I want both, high revs with a linear powerband, superchargers are just like adding displacement. (Except prochargers)
Big turbos give a huge thrill once they are on boil, no doubt!
The LT4 spins to 8k on a head package. This thread started some connections for me, I’m in the process of asking some B58 experts what 93oct full frame turbo with 8k rpm might be like.

 

[Jayson415PR]

I am on my second 2021 Supra. First one had 609 who on 93 with a pure 850 and 650cc meth. Second one and current has 520whp on 93 and 650cc of meth and both are anything but slow, what are you talking about??

 

[humblemoto]

I am on my second 2021 Supra. First one had 609 who on 93 with a pure 850 and 650cc meth. Second one and current has 520whp on 93 and 650cc of meth and both are anything but slow, what are you talking about??

No doubt bringing the charge temp down with meth is “safer” power, until your tank is empty or a solenoid fails or your on a 3000 mile road trip.
Hate to break it to you, 600whp in 3600lbs (6lbs per hp) is slow. After you become accustomed to 220whp in 450lbs (2lbs per hp) almost everything is slow. It’s the equivalent of our weight car having roughly 1300hp.
I feel like 900whp with our weight would be a sweet spot, just unobtainable with 93oct and a reasonable sized turbo.

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