M2 Comp a league above MKV? EVO.co.uk article says as much

[razorlab]

Now imagine if they added the S58 to the Supra.

They are putting the S58 and a S68 in the Supra GRMN, front and rear, with AWD and GT4 aero. Also will have the ability to have oil conversations with itself. When you park two close to each other they will have a conversation about tire sizes together.

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[White Shadow]

Now imagine if they added the S58 to the Supra.

That would be crazy. But it's not going to happen.

 

[Tacoma714]

I cross shopped the NEW G87 M2 and a manual GR Supra. I had no interest whatsoever in spending $60K+ on a used M2 Comp.

That being said, the G87 M2 was $12K more than the Supra and had a 12-14 month wait for one. The weight of the car (it's a porker) as well as the iPad dash was a "turn off" for me as well.

Since I had previously owned an ZF8 Supra, it made the decision easier.

Happy I bought the MT GR Supra.

Those F87’s are starting to drop in price. I was also shopping for an F87 Comp in late 22’ when the prices had not moved and were still above 60k. Good choice on the MKV 6MT. I’ve had mine for a year and every time I drive it, the drive itself feels special.

Eventually I wouldn't be surprised if the S58 is developed more and starts beating modded B58's. But until that happens a modded B58 is still faster (for now).

And if we are talking about just chassis, ignoring the engine and transmission thrown in these cars, the Supra is just flat out the better track car. It's lighter and has a shorter wheelbase. It even has a slightly more balanced weight distribution vs the G87.

G87 52.1/47.9
Supra 50/50

All your argument is telling me, is that the G87 M2 might be worth looking into as a better straight line drag car, stock vs stock, or maybe minimal mods vs minimal mods on both cars.

I'd rather sacrifice a little bit of straight line speed so that I have better handling, but that's just me.

The G87 is a great car, but it's more like a muscle car than a true sports car.

Go calculate the power to weight ratio of both cars and you'll see that they're insanely close. That extra weight in the G87 really holds it back.

In order for an engine to be developed and pushed further in the after market, it has to be attainable for more clients. Think of the 2jz and all the years it took to get it to where it is. The fans followed the B58 platform mainly because of the Supra name. Something similar has to happen to the S58. I’m not saying there aren’t currently die hard M fans in the G8X platforms which I know there are. But more people have to buy more M cars for the S58 to get pushed even further faster.

 

[iPan]

Those F87’s are starting to drop in price. I was also shopping for an F87 Comp in late 22’ when the prices had not moved and were still above 60k. Good choice on the MKV 6MT. I’ve had mine for a year and every time I drive it, the drive itself feels special.

In order for an engine to be developed and pushed further in the after market, it has to be attainable for more clients. Think of the 2jz and all the years it took to get it to where it is. The fans followed the B58 platform mainly because of the Supra name. Something similar has to happen to the S58. I’m not saying there aren’t currently die hard M fans in the G8X platforms which I know there are. But more people have to buy more M cars for the S58 to get pushed even further faster.

I agree 100% with you.

Like @White Shadow mentioned, the S58 will likely never reach the Supra

There isn't a lighter chassis that can just take an S58 swap and be fine with minimal work on the manufacturer side. It'd outperform any other chassis/drivetrain combination BMW has currently, so they'd never let Toyota have it.

Unless maybe they made an S58 powered Z4 to compete? But Z4 sales haven't exactly been confidence inspiring for them so I doubt that too.

 

[AJRMKV]

I agree 100% with you.

Like @White Shadow mentioned, the S58 will likely never reach the Supra

There isn't a lighter chassis that can just take an S58 swap and be fine with minimal work on the manufacturer side. It'd outperform any other chassis/drivetrain combination BMW has currently, so they'd never let Toyota have it.

Unless maybe they made an S58 powered Z4 to compete? But Z4 sales haven't exactly been confidence inspiring for them so I doubt that too.

I'm hoping the supra inspires BMW to bring back an S58 powered M coupe.

There are most definitely buyers out there for that.

 

[ghosted]

So then what are we even discussing here? The numbers don’t lie. A last generation vehicle does not typically outperform a newer one and we are talking two performance oriented vehicles. If you need a bit more practicality and a back seat, sure, maybe it’s “better”. ?

The G87 is far better than the OG M2, the M2 Comp, the M2CS, and the MKV Supra. It's really not even close except maybe with the CS. But the S58 engine alone is enough reason to get a G87. It's in a different league entirely.

What we are discussing is that a prolific car pundit said that the F87 M2 is in a league above the MKV. A "league above" did not have to do with how fast it performed on a track, but in the way it feels when you drive it. But the comments about G87 motors making 1000hp is news to me - that is just sweet. Unfortunately - half the comments are gratuitous bloat aka MKV fanboys who got angry with my minority (in this forum) opinion.

 

[BMWAF]

What we are discussing is that a prolific car pundit said that the F87 M2 is in a league above the MKV. A "league above" did not have to do with how fast it performed on a track, but in the way it feels when you drive it. But the comments about G87 motors making 1000hp is news to me - that is just sweet. Unfortunately - half the comments are gratuitous bloat aka MKV fanboys who got angry with my minority (in this forum) opinion.

In overall terms, its hard to argue against the G87 M2 being a better car: The interior leaves the Supra for dead; The engine is more powerful out of the box; The overall technology (entertainment and driving dynamics) is newer and updated. Just to state the obvious:

• The M2 a newer design.
• The M2 is a more expensive car (here).
• The M2 is a full blown BMW M car and not a 3 (now 6+) year old parts bin Toyota BMW.

The only things we have on our side is that the Supra is cheaper; the reliability/support of a known engine; and the fact that even after five years, the Supra's looks still break necks every drive.

 

[ghosted]

Well the article was about the f87 (MY 2016-2021) being the better car than the mkv

 

[BMWAF]

Well the article was about the f87 (MY 2016-2021) being the better car than the mkv

If we are being brutally honest, it's probably a push between the Supra and the F87 M2 (in overall terms) since it's largely the same parts bin vintage, which is a little embarrassing but it's all part of the Toyota BMW experience. ?‍

 

[Syeeee]

If we are being brutally honest, it's probably a push between the Supra and the F87 M2 (in overall terms) since it's largely the same parts bin vintage, which is a little embarrassing but it's all part of the Toyota BMW experience. ?‍

Anything over Toyota bland Interior.

 

[iPan]

In overall terms, its hard to argue against the G87 M2 being a better car: The interior leaves the Supra for dead; The engine is more powerful out of the box; The overall technology (entertainment and driving dynamics) is newer and updated. Just to state the obvious:

• The M2 a newer design.
• The M2 is a more expensive car (here).
• The M2 is a full blown BMW M car and not a 3 (now 6+) year old parts bin Toyota BMW.

The only things we have on our side is that the Supra cheaper; the reliability/support of a known engine; and the fact that even after five years, the Supra's looks still break necks every drive.

The M2 may have released later than the Supra, but like the Supra, it's just BMW's modular CLAR platform underneath. They're very similar. Also a lot of parts are literally just ripped from the BMW M4 released in 2020. So it's not like the car is drastically newer. The only thing that's truly a big leap is the infotainment and interior quality. As far as driving dynamics they're pretty close with the M2 having the edge in straight line speed, but the Supra having the edge in the handling department.

 

[BMWAF]

The M2 may have released later than the Supra, but like the Supra, it's just BMW's modular CLAR platform underneath. They're very similar. Also a lot of parts are literally just ripped from the BMW M4 released in 2020. So it's not like the car is drastically newer. The only thing that's truly a big leap is the infotainment and interior quality. As far as driving dynamics they're pretty close with the M2 having the edge in straight line speed, but the Supra having the edge in the handling department.

I think the M2 has a lot more updates underneath. The diff settings are far more granular, etc. And the fact that Toyota started with outdated parts at the outset, just makes it a very hard a sell. ?‍

 

[SupeHamster]

What we are discussing is that a prolific car pundit said that the F87 M2 is in a league above the MKV. A "league above" did not have to do with how fast it performed on a track, but in the way it feels when you drive it.

The supra is designed as a sports car, and has the agility and arguably the edginess to match. The M2 is a hotted up luxury sedan, and is more refined and stable for it. None of that is particularly surprising to me, but whether that makes one better or worse is surely a matter of preference?

 

[johnnyskids]

The G87 when optioned with the carbon roof and carbon buckets is actually lighter than that. Manual transmission models also drop weight if that's your main concern. Either way, the engine makes up for any increase in weight as far as acceleration. And the larger tires do the same for handling. The S58 is severely underrated from BMW. This engine is easily putting out 500+ HP. It's faster than an M2 Comp. And an M2 Comp is faster than a MKV. Nothing barely about it. The G87 is superior just because of the S58 alone.

The MKV is far from a lightweight car. In all honesty, it's a bit porky for a smallish two seater car.

I'm just going to point out two independent times where the Supra outperformed the M2 (current gen and previous generation). One is stock, the other puts each on the same tires.



https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a23319884/lightning-lap-times-historical-data/

Now I'm not saying that the previous M2 or the current M2 aren't fantastic cars and I can understand why someone might choose one, but stating that they are in another league is just false when talking track and performance numbers.

Factoring in price and appearance I'd say the Supra is better in both compared to the new M2.

 

[BMWAF]

Factoring in price and appearance I'd say the Supra is better in both compared to the new M2.

Externally, sure.. no argument. The inside of a Supra however, is absolute dogshit compared to the new M2. And in this respect, calling the M2 in another league is, quite frankly, putting it mildly.

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