News, Updates, and Discussions on next-gen A100 Supra

[Vinny]

Like I said before, it will take “queues” and be “inspired” by the MKIV Supra.

Alot of things in the works…

Any info in the upcoming mr2/celica ?

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[PerformanceSound]

I do have to ask if the sound will be amplified

No info on that, just that the new motor will have almost a “zero lag” turbo setup. Weight is a top priority as well.

 

[PerformanceSound]

Any info in the upcoming mr2/celica ?

None yet, but the GR 3cyl is getting alot of attention. Don’t be surprised if a 400hp variant will be available in the future.

 

[Vinny]

None yet, but the GR 3cyl is getting alot of attention. Don’t be surprised if a 400hp variant will be available in the future.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's for the GRMN Corolla. Last question I have is the next gen supra 99% not a 6cyl ?

 

[Turbro]

Frankly if the next Supra is a heavier 4cyl hybrid, I’m out. That’s not a Supra. So No fucking thanks. Sincerely a lifelong Supra enthusiast and 2 decade Supra owner.

 

[swrdply400mrelay]

No info on that, just that the new motor will have almost a “zero lag” turbo setup. Weight is a top priority as well.

Will a manual be available ?

 

[Mayday]

Will a manual be available ?

this the real question

 

[KahnBB6]

Will a manual be available ?

Not mentioned in either video article was the existence of a Lexus RC race car test mule at Toyota's facilities with this new 2.0L turbo engine in RWD non-hybrid gas-only form making a claimed 600hp... and bolted to a 6-speed manual transmission.

That does suggest at least the possibility of some kind of manual transmission version of the Supra MKVI and new Lexus coupe that will be sharing the chassis platform with the Supra (a repeat of how the Supra MKIV and SC/Soarer Z30 shared a platform and engine architecture in the 90's)... if Toyota decides to offer such a trim level of either one in addition to A/T versions.

That is mentioned in this article:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/toyota-aims-to-surpass-2jz-with-next-gen-high-performance-engine

 

[KahnBB6]

This is lining up what with a lot of accumulated hints over the last few years:

--The Supra MKV's success allows an MKVI generation to be greenlit but now all in-house

--Toyota develops a new in-house sport coupe platform for both the Supra and Lexus which will be used by both brands (I believe A70TTR mentioned this many, many months ago on here)

--The Lexus RC and LC get discontinued and are both replaced by a new coupe based on this shared platform presumably as a new "SC"/"Soarer" which is shared with the Supra MKVI (just as the MKIV Supra and SC/Soarer shared a chassis and driveline family architecture in the 1990's)

--A new high performance engine is developed which will see use in the Supra, new Lexus coupe and several other models which amortizes the R&D costs and allows for many variants with very different states of tune. According to one of the main engineers of that engine a target with newer technology was to in some way "beat the 2JZ" with the new design.

The 2JZ is an overbuilt and over-designed dinosaur of a high nickel content iron block engine from the late 1980's which can do what it does because Toyota did too good a job of ensuring it was extra reliable and durable. At least one Toyota engineer in recent years said in an interview that all that extra stress taking capability is partly a by-product of old fashioned design methods by today's standards. Still... a 600hp test version of this new engine in RWD gas-only form with a manual bolted to it is a promising start.

--Supra MKV will get discontinued after model year 2026 as was always the original plan between BMW and Magna-Steyr (according to A70TTR's old posts)

--Toyota's company mandate to offer at minimum a hybrid trim level of every model by 2026 applies here as well (again, according to what A70TTR said a long while back) but that may not necessarily mean every Supra MKVI trim level will be hybrid. It may be that one or more gasoline-only trim levels could be on offer alongside one or more hybrid trim levels (which would certainly allow for the commercialization of that prototype test mule manual transmission version of this 2.0L turbo RWD driveline) It also may or may not suggest that the highest horsepower range topping version might be hybrid gas+electric mostly for extra power and torque.

 

[KahnBB6]

None yet, but the GR 3cyl is getting alot of attention. Don’t be surprised if a 400hp variant will be available in the future.

I don't doubt this considering how much power Australian tuners have been able to get out of that 3cyl 1.6L.

So far the Celica (in AWD GT-Four homage configuration) and MR2 (possibly also in AWD configuration) sound more like they also will be using 400hp versions of the new 2.0L turbo four cylinder... both possibly with gas only trim levels and possibly offering manual transmissions.

The 3cyl is getting a 1.5L detuned version for the new Starlet FWD Rally4 hatchback and for the new co-developed S-FR roadster along with Daihatsu for a platform shared Copen roadster and also Suzuki for a similarly platform shared new Cappuccino. All three of them supposedly will not be Kei class but will compete with the Miata now.

Does any of that line up with what you've heard so far?

Something I'd also like to know is regarding the GR86 gen 3. If you can comment on any of this please let me know if it's an even remotely close to accurate deduction/prediction:

The current Toyota-Subaru model will be killed off in one more model year. Toyota has taken up development this time reportedly using the current Lexus IS sedan RWD platform and the G16E-GTS 1.6L 3cyl turbo engine. With the Celica making a comeback in a couple of years (presumably TNGA platform based) and the 3rd gen GR86 supposedly using the Lexus IS sedan chassis as its starting point... I don't see how the 3rd gen car will be a two door coupe 2850lb thing.

A Toyota engineer also said they wanted to market a four door version of the model and recent rumors have suggested the same. Toyota also subtly showed off an Altezza sedan in their recent promotional anime series which also featured the GR Corolla, a fanboy talking about the 3cyl turbo and a shrouded MR2 in the background.

If all of that holds water it sounds much more like the 3rd gen "GR86" will be more like a revival of the Altezza RS200 (we got it as the 1st gen IS300 in the U.S.) RWD sport sedan of 1998-2005. The Altezza succeeded the original AE86 and Toyota loves these homages to their 80's-90's driver's car lineage.

 

[PerformanceSound]

There is a reason the G16E-GTS came to fruition….it was by division, not subtraction. That’s all I will say. Okay, back to my cave.

 

[Bryster]

Have they tried the G16E×2? or is that out of the question

 

[KahnBB6]

There is a reason the G16E-GTS came to fruition….it was by division, not subtraction. That’s all I will say. Okay, back to my cave.

I always figured this was the case but that the 3cyl versions had to be proven in sales and public reception before anything else could be done with it. The power that can be made from it is impressive (up to 700whp+ or so last I checked).

So far the 268hp-300hp 1.6L G16-GTS has been split into a 1.5L variant detuned to 150hp for the JDM/Euro Starlet hatch and the upcoming S-FR/Copen/Cappuccino roadster trio.

Whether the 3cyl would be doubled into an inline six always comes down to not just its use in the Supra but also several more Toyota and Lexus models, correct? So unless both brands plan to make use of at least a few inline six engines in a few models before 2035 just as is happening with the 3cyl and new 2.0L turbo 4cyl it that would make such an endeavor quite difficult to justify to Toyota management, right?

Don't get me wrong-- I anticipated that a powerful motorsport 3cyl could be made into an inline six JZ successor... but it has always been a matter of *will* they do this even if the initial groundwork has been laid?

Or... is the existence of the G16E-GTS already helping enough to amortize those huge costs of developing such an engine?

Then the final issue is packaging it into more than just the MKVI and one Lexus coupe.

 

[KahnBB6]

Have they tried the G16E×2? or is that out of the question

He's saying the G16E was developed as an I-3 specifically to lay groundwork for potential doubling of it into an I-6. As soon as the engine was announced a few years ago that was my first thought as well... but as to whether Toyota is actually going to do this given that it still costs tremendous money and given that it would have to be used in not just a Supra but several cars... we'll have to see if they ever do it.

But it is sound reasoning from the engineers, GR people and on the business end to lay that much groundwork even if it only gets so far.

I would love to see it happen even amidst Toyota's aggressive push into engine downsizing and hybridization and electrification. If they are ever going to do it and make use of a G16E x2... now is the time to do it. Product development takes years after all and the regulatory targets keep getting tighter every so many years. So there are windows of ideal time for all of these current and upcoming Toyota performance engines.

 

[Bryster]

My question is if it passes emissions

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