IF iT WaS A rEAL ToYOTa, thE SuPRa wOULD'vE BeEn BeTTeR..

[BMWAF]

I was bored and looking at the Australian specs of all the GR cars and well, it would seem those really great Toyota engines are pretty poor compared to our German power plant. And that's beyond the engines in the Corolla randomly blowing up.

	Supra	GR Yaris	GR Corolla	GR 86
Fuel Type	Minimum: 91 RON Recommended: 95 RON	Recommended: 98 RON	Recommended: 98 RON	Recommended: Not listed.
Fuel Economy (Combined)	Automatic: 7.5L/100 Manual: 9.9L/100	Manual: 8.2	Manual: 8.4L/100 Automatic: 9.5L/100	Auto 8.8/L100 Manual 9.5L/100
Power/Torque Output	285Kw 500Nm	221Kw 400Nm	221Kw 400Nm	174Kw 250Nm

If the mythical MKVI or Celica follow this pattern (and yes, I know there is a Subaru in there), Toyota will be going backwards.. not just in power but also efficiency. And the Toyota power plants need 98RON while the Supra can use 91 in a pinch!

I know there are other factors, but looking at just currently in use GR engines, I can't help but think that without that BMW power plant, an all Toyota Supra would've been, to quote Mr. Clarkson, even less than whelming.

And what is with the fuel consumption on the Corolla's automatic transmission?

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[Habu]

As a Toyota fan boy. B58 > G16E-GTS. Toyota main focus has been more on the electric vehicle side of things. However, It’s cool to see them bringing this GR line up & hopefully continues to do so. BMW I’m not sure on the other hand what their focus is. They’ve been making in-line-6 engines for a while now hence why the B58 in our cars. The B58 is in nearly every BMW powered vehicle. Even the Ineos Grenadier (off road vehicle) & the Morgan Plus Six. Not to mention the cost differences between the two engines. New B58 cost roughly ~ $10K where a G16E-GTS ~ $20K++

 

[lucky phil]

I was bored and looking at the Australian specs of all the GR cars and well, it would seem those really great Toyota engines are pretty poor compared to our German power plant. And that's beyond the engines in the Corolla randomly blowing up.

	Supra	GR Yaris	GR Corolla	GR 86
Fuel Type	Minimum: 91 RON Recommended: 95 RON	Recommended: 98 RON	Recommended: 98 RON	Recommended: Not listed.
Fuel Economy (Combined)	Automatic: 7.5L/100 Manual: 9.9L/100	Manual: 8.2	Manual: 8.4L/100 Automatic: 9.5L/100	Auto 8.8/L100 Manual 9.5L/100
Power/Torque Output	285Kw 500Nm	221Kw 400Nm	221Kw 400Nm	174Kw 250Nm

If the mythical MKVI or Celica follow this pattern (and yes, I know there is a Subaru in there), Toyota will be going backwards.. not just in power but also efficiency. And the Toyota power plants need 98RON while the Supra can use 91 in a pinch!

I know there are other factors, but looking at just currently in use GR engines, I can't help but think that without that BMW power plant, an all Toyota Supra would've been, to quote Mr. Clarkson, even less than whelming.

And what is with the fuel consumption on the Corolla's automatic transmission?

I'm not sure what you are referring to in this post and without getting into the engine spec "weeds" the GR Corolla engine makes 138Kw/litre and the B58 95Kw/litre so I'm not surprised that the smaller engine needs 98ron probably to give it a little headroom for the FWF.
The economy issue manual V Auto is probably similar to the issue with the Supra which should have better economy for the manual all things being equal but auto's these days lock the torque converter in top gear so there is no converter loss to a manual in that scenario plus in the case of the Supra they have shortened the gearing in the manual by around 10% so that kills the economy benefit for the manual.
I still think the Manual would be a much better car with the longer auto diff in it in every way except stop light drag racing which most don't put a premium on.
Phil

 

[Emspilot]

I'm not sure what you are referring to in this post and without getting into the engine spec "weeds" the GR Corolla engine makes 138Kw/litre and the B58 95Kw/litre so I'm not surprised that the smaller engine needs 98ron probably to give it a little headroom for the FWF. The economy issue manual V Auto is probably similar to the issue with the Supra which should have better economy for the manual all things being equal but auto's these days lock the torque converter in top gear so there is no converter loss to a manual in that scenario plus in the case of the Supra they have shortened the gearing in the manual by around 10% so that kills the economy benefit for the manual. I still think the Manual would be a much better car with the longer auto diff in it in every way except stop light drag racing which most don't put a premium on.
Phil

I love ya Phil, but please; can we use some paragraphs?

 

[lucky phil]

I love ya Phil, but please; can we use some paragraphs?

Sorry. My posts come out as a stream of consciousness ,lol then I tidy up the grammar etc as best I can at the end. Missed the last function this time.
Phil

 

[Dannyvandelft]

I was bored and looking at the Australian specs of all the GR cars and well, it would seem those really great Toyota engines are pretty poor compared to our German power plant. And that's beyond the engines in the Corolla randomly blowing up.

	Supra	GR Yaris	GR Corolla	GR 86
Fuel Type	Minimum: 91 RON Recommended: 95 RON	Recommended: 98 RON	Recommended: 98 RON	Recommended: Not listed.
Fuel Economy (Combined)	Automatic: 7.5L/100 Manual: 9.9L/100	Manual: 8.2	Manual: 8.4L/100 Automatic: 9.5L/100	Auto 8.8/L100 Manual 9.5L/100
Power/Torque Output	285Kw 500Nm	221Kw 400Nm	221Kw 400Nm	174Kw 250Nm

If the mythical MKVI or Celica follow this pattern (and yes, I know there is a Subaru in there), Toyota will be going backwards.. not just in power but also efficiency. And the Toyota power plants need 98RON while the Supra can use 91 in a pinch!

I know there are other factors, but looking at just currently in use GR engines, I can't help but think that without that BMW power plant, an all Toyota Supra would've been, to quote Mr. Clarkson, even less than whelming.

And what is with the fuel consumption on the Corolla's automatic transmission?

The B58 is one of the best engines ever built, let alone BMW vs Toyota. If you take away the exotic stuff, you'll be hard pressed to find anything better.

I've said it plenty, BMW made a better Supra than Toyota ever did.

 

[Kennith82]

It’s pushing 100hp per cylinder on the 3 cyl GRC that runs about 20+ psi boost. The car is going to be octane limited with little headroom.

Anyway I don’t get why people still dog on the Supra for being a ‘BMW’. The G series are boats. The Supra is the lightest and cheapest B58 platform to get into, besides maybe the F series.

If Toyota made the “Supra” it’d just be another RC or LC rehash for around 80k+ and be a boat. At that point people would go Hellcat, BMW, Merc, or literally anything else.

 

[GRMan]

I was bored and looking at the Australian specs of all the GR cars and well, it would seem those really great Toyota engines are pretty poor compared to our German power plant. And that's beyond the engines in the Corolla randomly blowing up.

	Supra	GR Yaris	GR Corolla	GR 86
Fuel Type	Minimum: 91 RON Recommended: 95 RON	Recommended: 98 RON	Recommended: 98 RON	Recommended: Not listed.
Fuel Economy (Combined)	Automatic: 7.5L/100 Manual: 9.9L/100	Manual: 8.2	Manual: 8.4L/100 Automatic: 9.5L/100	Auto 8.8/L100 Manual 9.5L/100
Power/Torque Output	285Kw 500Nm	221Kw 400Nm	221Kw 400Nm	174Kw 250Nm

If the mythical MKVI or Celica follow this pattern (and yes, I know there is a Subaru in there), Toyota will be going backwards.. not just in power but also efficiency. And the Toyota power plants need 98RON while the Supra can use 91 in a pinch!

I know there are other factors, but looking at just currently in use GR engines, I can't help but think that without that BMW power plant, an all Toyota Supra would've been, to quote Mr. Clarkson, even less than whelming.

And what is with the fuel consumption on the Corolla's automatic transmission?

Different state of tune.

G16E-GTS on the Corolla is pushing around 300hp on a 1.6.

Theoretically, a 3L or 3.2L I6 (G16E-GTS x 2) from Toyota will be pushing around 600 stock with 7 years drivetrain warranty. Plus you can tune it without sending to Femto.

 

[Funkjaw]

BMW power/drive train combined with a Toyota chassis with a longer wheelbase: woulda made this the greatest sports car of all time. Instead we got a Z4 with a Supra body that has so many terrible handling characteristics it drives me insane.

 

[Syeeee]

BMW power/drive train combined with a Toyota chassis with a longer wheelbase: woulda made this the greatest sports car of all time. Instead we got a Z4 with a Supra body that has so many terrible handling characteristics it drives me insane.

 

[Emspilot]

BMW power/drive train combined with a Toyota chassis with a longer wheelbase: woulda made this the greatest sports car of all time. Instead we got a Z4 with a Supra body that has so many terrible handling characteristics it drives me insane.

Then sell the fucker and go away if you hate it so much.

 

[splv]

BMW power/drive train combined with a Toyota chassis with a longer wheelbase: woulda made this the greatest sports car of all time. Instead we got a Z4 with a Supra body that has so many terrible handling characteristics it drives me insane.

Please elaborate on all the terrible handling characteristics. We would all like to learn from an expert.

 

[puzzled]

I think the GR Supra is pretty much perfect the way it is.. price point, performance, interior, tech, size, appearance, and she sounds good (mine is a 2020 with lots of bangs and pops).

It's like a Z car that Nissan never could make properly.. and now they have to merge with Honda to keep afloat? WTF.. the new Prelude is faktarded too.

 

[BMWAF]

I think the GR Supra is pretty much perfect the way it is.. price point, performance, interior, tech, size, appearance, and she sounds good (mine is a 2020 with lots of bangs and pops).

I largely agree. There's some curious design choices which I would question but at this price point, nothing comes close.

 

[Funkjaw]

Please elaborate on all the terrible handling characteristics. We would all like to learn from an expert.

Largely centered around rear end stability, wheel hop, rear bump steer, things of that nature. Not that this can't be corrected with aftermarket parts and a solid alignment - but yes it's wild the car is this unstable from factory. I also suspect the manuals have these issues worse than the autos but I don't know this for certain.

Robert and Misha talk about it in these videos for those curious:

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