Death of ICE cars

[MisterSkiz]

Well would you look at that.

Auto Execs Are Coming Clean: EVs Aren't Working (businessinsider.com)

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[J29DB03]

Well would you look at that.

Auto Execs Are Coming Clean: EVs Aren't Working (businessinsider.com)

"People are finally seeing reality," Toyota Motor Chairman Akio Toyoda said at the Japan Mobility Show…”

 

[KahnBB6]

My own daughter doesn’t like me at times either. Doesn’t make me xenophobic or racist. Those words get thrown around like grains of salt. Disgust and ill feelings toward someone doesn’t make them any of those things.

I was only talking about him and his situation, man. His issues are his own. And he is quite an open book about how xenophobic, racist, anti-trans, anti-LGBTQ+ he is so it's pretty easy to understand what kind of person he is. His daughter is transgender and so I am sure his intolerant stances about anyone who is has at least some bearing on why the two of them do not get along.

In Musk's case he's just making it abundantly clear (and usually unprompted by anyone but himself at any given moment) of exactly where he stands on a lot of issues related to minorities and groups that mostly have extremely little to do with him. He's making it pretty easy to call a spade a spade as applies to him in regards to his extreme and vocal dislike of people who are different from him and who he doesn't like.

No one is saying he doesn't have a right to go to such extremes in his unprompted declarations if he so chooses to but everyone else has just as much right to ascertain that he's a xenophobe, racist, anti-LGBTQ and extremist conspiracy nut when he plainly demonstrates those qualities for all to see of his own accord.

It is his own choice to demonstrate of all these qualities in public that absolutely does make him all of those things. And *second* to that the knowledge of and observation that he does make those choices tends to generate the ill feelings toward him.

I love that he bought twitter and allowed free speech again.

We never lost the 1st Amendment right to free speech. Even on Twitter. They just used to have community standards as a decent company which tried to keep racists, inaccurate information and white supremacist types off their system.... until Musk took it over and did away with all that.

Personally, having had a grandfather who put his time in to fight against those types in WWII I don't have a problem with keeping them off a social media platform.

On the financial side and long term outlook for Twitter, it's not all peachy there:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...at-twitter-leaves-x-corp-with-shaky-finances/

Especially medical journals that were getting cut for no reason at all. Only because they didn’t fit the narrative for big pharma. It was wrong on so many levels. Bring on all sides of the argument and let me decide. I don’t want big brother, government or anyone doing that for me. So there’s my beef. ?

Pharmaceutical companies are not saint organizations by any measure. Generally they are driven by bottom lines and profits (which is why we have at least some types of regulations to attempt to force them to treat patients and recipients fo their drugs and innovations somewhat fairly (emphasis on attempt-- no system is perfect).

But if there is no vetting of factual information against misleading or inaccurate misinformation that hasn't been peer reviewed and universally vetted as accurate medical information and/or an accurately proven technique, therapy or drug that actually has a high percentage of proven positive results from blind studies then just letting any old thing out there is a murky and potentially dangerous thing for people in general.

How many hours in your day or week do you have to stop everything in your work life and family life to totally dedicate yourself to (and in some cases pay out of pocket for) all the vetting work that the medical community in general (not just big pharma) does to figure out what actually works medically and what doesn't?

I do a lot of my own research also and prefer to be as highly informed as I can be when it comes to anything medical... but even if I want several professional opinions rather than just that of only one I am still going to trust the people in the medical community over some document that someone posted on Twitter.

Appreciate your more honest answer this go round. We’re all entitled to our opinions 4sho. Thank gawd.

It was always honest. By no means would I suggest that we do not have the right to our opinions on things and on people. But Musk is in a bit of a different category from the rest of us since he has some seriously deep tie ups in the aerospace industry that the U.S. relies on and since he now owns a social media network which he has made into his own toxic kingdom. These are two fronts that do present some complicated issues on a larger scale than you and I represent.

I'm quite happy to be done with the whole Musk discussion at this point. He's not worth either of our time and I again say that the main focus of your thread in terms of where EV tech and this whole transition situation is going is a much bigger and more beneficial focus for all.

I don't see many such EV topic threads on other forums where all the different articles that are posted here are considered and discussed to get a better handle on all of it as we go along.

The wife still wants a Tesla. Uggggghhhhhhh…… I’d love for this tech to come along a bit more. I’m not sold just yet.

At the end of the day I feel people have to go for the car that will actually make them happy to own and drive it, whatever it may be. If your wife really, really likes one of the Teslas because it really suits her own style and tastes... it may be the right thing for her. Only she and you both can say for sure of course but if a Tesla is really her thing then it's hard to argue with that.

My own take on them: Let's put the Tesla CEO totally aside and ignore all of that. The build quality of the Tesla *electric motor drive units*, Tesla *inverter units* and even Tesla *battery packs* all generally impress me. If hobbyist conversion companies like EV West (and even Icon for an experiment of two) routinely re-purpose those components from Tesla automobiles and push them for high performance applications then I think it speaks very highly of the quality of those components.

Of the Tesla cars themselves on the other hand... just evaluating them as cars and ignoring all other factors... I still have serious concerns about long term reliability and out of warranty repairs for things that aren't even battery pack related.

When Tesla Motors considers one of their 2012 Model S vehicles a "legacy product" which they barely support any longer or make parts for any longer... that's a major red flag to me. If I go out today and buy a 2012 model Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Hyundai, Subaru, Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Mercedes, BMW, etc., etc. I would be equally put off with misgivings if any of those companies were to tell me that they barely offer support or replacement parts any longer for one of their 11 year old cars.

I kind of sort of get that situation with their original Roadster which was only made in small numbers from a modified Lotus chassis but not for one of their volume cars.

And then there's just the looks and interior. Personally I dislike both aspects of their cars. They CAN design their vehicles differently... but they prefer the minimalist almost-driverless taxicab on wheels approach. I'll take a Lexus EV or Toyota GR EV over that. Maybe even a Dodge Challenger EV since that's a vehicle still designed around catering to the driver experience. Porsche is also doing the overall approach right so far with their EV Cayman/Boxster prototype.

I did get to ride in a new Mustang EV. Uber to get my car from a fancy alignment. It was soooooo cool ? This guy believed it was practically free to drive. I didn’t say a word (he didn’t call anyone a racist - lol). I was truly happy for him. And it was really nice - from the backseat at least.

I don't know where the racist or non racist part comes in when it's just someone driving their car that they're telling you about

I'm glad he likes it and that you liked it too. I don't get excited about crossovers but so I understand these Mach E's are considered to be decent daily vehicles.

To me... it's still not a Mustang. Ford changed what we to have been the new Ford Escape battery EV into a "Mustang" badged thing when it was already well into the design process. They saw the Tesla Model Y sales potential and panicked thinking that the only way to make it sell decently well was to re-style the front end and rear end to look like the front and rear of the actual Mustang and change some of the programming and hardware to make it faster in a straight line.

As a former classic 60's Mustang owner I find it impossible to accept that vehicle as the thing Ford wants me to see it as.

But if they hadn't done all of that it would be a perfectly fine Ford Escape crossover.

One issue to note: they have been recalled recently en-masse due to the contactors inside the battery packs having a tendency to melt with repeated accumulated heavy acceleration. So for now a big issue has been issued and until each affected Mach E can be serviced for this under warranty Ford is asking owners to limit any aggressive acceleration unless absolutely necessary.

It's a design issue that they will be fixing vehicle by vehicle at great cost but for a vehicle that already looks nothing like a Ford Mustang but which is badged as a "Ford Mustang" it doesn't look good for them to have released a vehicle that can't even let you safely floor the accelerator the way you can in the actual Ford Mustang (the coupe).

Regardless... if you think you may be looking at one any time soon... do some reading on this recall and make sure you only consider a Mach E that has had this battery contactor issue corrected. If may also be better to wait until the next model year gets manufactured, even if that means putting yourself on a deposit waitlist for the next model year up.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Well would you look at that.

Auto Execs Are Coming Clean: EVs Aren't Working (businessinsider.com)

Fantastic honesty from the Toyota CEO! ?

"People are finally seeing reality," Toyota Motor Chairman Akio Toyoda

 

[FLtrackdays]

Something else to consider:

https://www.kktv.com/2024/01/17/tesla-drivers-stranded-amid-charging-struggles-frigid-cold

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/c...d-a-bunch-of-dead-robots-out-here/ar-AA1n21CO

 

[BMWAF]

Might interest someone.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01...electric-vehicles-uptake-challenges/103390084

 

[FLtrackdays]

Rode in my friend’s Tesla Plaid - O.M.G. ? ? - He bought it used. Great buy!! Damn these prices are dropping fast…

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a...t-new-york-auto-show-after-tossing-oil-on-evs

I think the guy in the article above ? must have lost a ton of equity in his ?

 

[J29DB03]

Rode in my friend’s Tesla Plaid - O.M.G. ? ? - He bought it used. Great buy!! Damn these prices are dropping fast…

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a...t-new-york-auto-show-after-tossing-oil-on-evs

I think the guy in the article above ? must have lost a ton of equity in his ?

Got to give some credit, they're finally admitting EVs are just as bad for the environment. About time people stop lying about it.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Say it isn’t so?!? It was such a sure thing when I started this thread.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a61423931/connecticut-ev-2035-carb-california

@decodeddiesel - your neck of the woods?

 

[decodeddiesel]

Say it isn’t so?!? It was such a sure thing when I started this thread.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a61423931/connecticut-ev-2035-carb-california

@decodeddiesel - your neck of the woods?

Frankly it's a little shocking because typically my little state is in lockstep with California and New York about any kind of progressive politics.

Someone they actually listen to must have provided some sort of reality check.

Being in the automotive industry I can tell you that all of the forwards thinkers have realized EVs are a mistake. Hybrids and hydrogen are the way of the future. We have focused our efforts at my work to pursue opportunities involving hydrogen and hybrid drivetrains. All of the EV work is drying up.

 

[Jiya763]

Internet warriors like us are indeed doing that. I see on Reddit/FB/etc. many people on both sides giving out credible sources of articles. Some say we're borrowing electric from xyz, some are saying there is over production. Varies from state to state..

Wind: Some are saying wind turbines are great. some are saying not so much. can't recycle. some say can be recycled. bad for birds. etc. etc.

Solar: great advancements. cost of production went down drastically. roof installs increased.

Storage: At the same time, there are companies like Tesla doing MegaPacks, small installs of energy storage for when demand is high..

But, you read all and someone always points out that Person A is an advocate for X, Person B is lobbyist, . Person C has stake in the game.. Don't know what to believe..

So, things are going in the "right" direction for clean renewable energy, but infrastructure.. not so sure.
A wind knocks out a pole and whole city is fucked for days. Happened to us few weeks ago. Had no power or cell reception or cell data for 4 days! Researching generators since. haven't pulled the trigger yet.
If you have a large battery backup, or gas line powered generator or like F150 or whatever with generator on board or in this case a Tesla that can feed power to your home, you can survive outages. If the health of battery was to be kept fairly stable, you could indeed even feed back to the grid. It makes sense in theory. You're like, yeah, electrons will flow back into grid? what? no. How are you feeding the grid. Where is the storage, li-ion? ultra-capacitor. Just powering your house? Who is doing the balancing. Will you be required to be plugged in to power the grid. Is it optional? Will I set the $ rate for selling. Maybe I've hundreds of batteries... Many questions, complicated ones.
Committees can't even decide on what to eat for lunch. That's where I feel Elon's pain with FSD. Dudes don't understand or have any policies for level 2+ autonomous and Elon and others are trying to push for level 6. Same with AI. it's out there. 0 policies. AI cannot unlearn....

I was also reading about the Tesla trucks. Where and how will they charge on the road once all gas and diesel trucks are electric? A lot of diesel owners are still sticking to traditional setups, some even exploring delete kits for diesel trucks to boost performance or longevity while they can. Yes, there are already truck stops with chargers, etc. but that's still complicated and not enough. There is already shortage of drivers, etc. and transit costs have increased. Your overnight delivery will get a note saying, "sorry, charging station was full, can't make the delivery today".. but then Tesla claims you can charge Model 3 to 147miles of range within 15 mins.. There are claims, there are actualities. Supercharges go down as well. Many YT, TT videos and articles..

In the end what's concerning is, once these supercharges are demanding peak power, will power stations start catching fire ? what's the load shedding/mitigation. Do they slow down charging rate..

questions questions..

Yeah, it’s a mess of mixed info out there. I’ve been looking into home backup too after a bad outage—realized how fragile the grid still is. Clean energy’s making strides, but without solid infrastructure and policy, it’s hard to trust it’ll hold up under pressure.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Yeah, it’s a mess of mixed info out there. I’ve been looking into home backup too after a bad outage—realized how fragile the grid still is. Clean energy’s making strides, but without solid infrastructure and policy, it’s hard to trust it’ll hold up under pressure.

Really depends on where you live right? Some areas are converting to nuclear power for AI ?. That’s a start I suppose…. Rural areas, forget about it. Bigger cities on really good grids, the better off they’ll be supporting all that EV juice?. It’ll definitely be a while to be able to support an entire country of only EVs.

Anyone see the whales beaching themselves trying to get around all the new wind turbines? So little power for such a large space and at a big expense ? . Nuclear power can’t come soon enough, imo. Of course the turbine companies will tell you there’s absolutely nothing to see here.

https://nypost.com/2025/04/10/opinion/how-nys-offshore-wind-power-threatens-whales-ships-and-more

 

[PerformanceSound]

Really depends on where you live right? Some areas are converting to nuclear power for AI ?. That’s a start I suppose…. Rural areas, forget about it. Bigger cities on really good grids, the better off they’ll be supporting all that EV juice?. It’ll definitely be a while to be able to support an entire country of only EVs.

Anyone see the whales beaching themselves trying to get around all the new wind turbines? So little power for such a large space and at a big expense ? . Nuclear power can’t come soon enough, imo. Of course the turbine companies will tell you there’s absolutely nothing to see here.

https://nypost.com/2025/04/10/opinion/how-nys-offshore-wind-power-threatens-whales-ships-and-more

EV’s will be like the HarmonyOS of cars, the alternate option. ICE powered vehicles will always be the iOS/Android of cars. They will both exist simultaneously, and both have groups of buyers. That’s the beauty of America…free enterprise!

 

[FLtrackdays]

EV’s will be like the HarmonyOS of cars, the alternate option. ICE powered vehicles will always be the iOS/Android of cars. They will both exist simultaneously, and both have groups of buyers. That’s the beauty of America…free enterprise!

As it should be! To think we almost had a mandate when I started this thread… Scary ?

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