White Shadow
Well-Known Member
PDK, sure. ZF8 though? Surely nobody thinks a ZF8 is the pinnacle of performance. It's a decent torque converter automatic, that's about it. I do enjoy the ZF8 in my Jeep, so I'm not being a hater...I"m just being realistic.
PikkaGTR
Well-Known Member
Think about it this way
You can put the exact MT in a Chevy Cruze or a VW GTi
One will not drive like the other
That is your comparison between the ZF in your jeep and a G29 Zupra
The ZF is also tuned different across different platforms, I'd argue it's more tuning that makes it better or worse to drive
White Shadow
Well-Known Member
No, I wasn't making that comparison at all. The comparison I was making was a torque converter automatic vs PDK. One is awesome, the other is simply okay.
PikkaGTR
Well-Known Member
PDK published shift times 200 milliseconds
ZF8 published shift times 200 milliseconds
Tq convertor autos have come a long way from grandmas Honda Accord 3spd + overdrive
By the way , Porsche thought the ZF was so great they have partnered with them to develop a ZF8 dual clutch for their AWD models
Sometimes the car doesn't always live up to the hype
I have driven base 718s and top trim GT4 caymans
I was underwhelmed to say the least
White Shadow
Well-Known Member
If you think shift speed is the only factor that makes PDK superior to a torque converter automatic, then I guess there's nothing left to discuss.
And BTW, the ZF dual clutch is, well, a dual clutch transmission. It's not the traditional ZF8 or any varient of it.
White Shadow
Well-Known Member
Yeah, the ZF8 so far seems to be pretty solid, at least if you don't push too much power through it. But for a stock or lightly modified car, it's all good.
RenRed2
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Go drive an M3 or M4. DCT was tossed by BMW in favor of the ZF-8. Its stout and a excellent performance gearbox outside of the PDK. I loved my M2 with DCT here in Germany. ZF-8 is better as adapted for M-use vs the previous DCT. Decent torque converter LOL. Yes M - Division at BMW has made a gross error LOL. Wake up to technology.
Do some research. You will be amazed. The drive train is optimized between motor and gearbox to maximize the power useage and to put it down effectively.
My new M2 will have the ZF-8 as does my 22 M240iXdrive. Its the industry standard now outside of the PDK. Neither disappoints in the performance arena.
White Shadow
Well-Known Member
Honeslty, I'm much more of a manual transmission guy, but I've had enough seat time in various different dual clutch gearbox cars to know what they do better than a ZF8 or any other torque converter automatic.
For example, have you ever driven an M3, held the left shift paddle and basically floor the gas pedal? If so, what happens? Well, let's put it this way---it's not nearly the same thing that would happen if you tried that in a ZF8.
And BTW, have you driven a DSG yet? If shift speed is your thing, it's a lot quicker than PDK or a ZF8.
But still, you can never get the direct feel with a torque converter that you get with a DCT or even a manual transmission, for that matter. But I'm glad that you're enjoying your ZF8. Like I said, I enjoy mine too. It's a nice transmission for sure.
White Shadow
Well-Known Member
I have driven the M3. But to be brutally honest, I strongly prefer the manual transmission M3, so there's that to consider. Read my post above that explains what I did really like about the M3.
PikkaGTR
Well-Known Member
Ok a few answers to that pile of words with no context
I have OWNED 2 different F80 M3s. I am well aware of the advantages and short comings of that gear box
My current beater is a 2020 MK7.5 GTI with the DSG
It does not shift faster/better than the ZF8 in my Zupra , even with Cobb AP and a trans tune from EQTuning
The DCT in the F8x cars are great, very dramatic and a blast to hoon
However they're clunky at low speeds around town
There is no creep so you'd have to tap the throttle at a full stop to engage the creep speed
Most don't know so they gas it , leading to a jerky start similar to a newby MT driver
The shifts are crisp, and with the DCT in the highest setting, it'll barely slip the clutch and slam it into the next gear
Again boisterous and dramatic, not necessarily very fast or good on the tranny
I am speaking from a position of actual ownership experience, past and presently owning both a DSG/DCT and a ZF8
The transmission in the Zupra is the best auto trans I have driven to date
That I cludes the PDK in the 718 and base 911s
White Shadow
Well-Known Member
Terrific. Now we all know why you don't like DCT cars and that's all good and fine.
Ironically, you never answered my question. The ONE redeeming quality I, as a manual transmission guy, absolutely loved about the M3 is how it instantly selects the lowest possible gear for maximum accelation when you mat the gas pedal with the shift paddle held in. That can't be done with any ZF8. So you asked me for an example and I gave you one.
As far as the DSG, it certainly shifts much faster than a PDK or a ZF8. I'm not sure sure how you can debate that when the shift speeds are well known. But again, that doesn't mean much to me. it was you who seemed to be so impressed with a 200 ms shift.
PikkaGTR
Well-Known Member
You mean if I hold the kick down button in AUTO mode with the trans in sport it'll go from 8th whatever lowest gear possible ?
Have you tried it ? It WILL do that
And the DCT doesn't "instantly" do that
You'll have to still pedal past kickdown point with the downshift paddle held
The ZF is much easier
Just mash the pedal past kickdown
I have had over 60k miles across 2 different DCT M cars through 5 yrs of ownership
They have their pros and cons
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