Brake bleeding requires dealer?!

phm14

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Finally saw this thread! Sorry for taking this long!

So while installing our new BBK, the master cylinder went dry on accident and it sucked in a lot of air. Took us a lot of bleeds but the brake pedal was very very unhappy. Like, 75% of it did nothing to stop the car. It was clear we got air into the DSC and ABS pumps, and we were gonna try to keep bleeding it ourselves and get the pedal back. But the next event on the calendar was COTA, where we knew we had to brake from 150 MPH to maybe 50 for a hairpin. We decided to not risk it and go for the dealers option, paid the service fees, and went on to win our class in COTA.

In short, you most likely won't need to take your car into the dealership for a brake bleed, AS LONG AS you aren't a dummy like us and didn't get a lot of air into the system. We did multiple bleeds and fluid flushes ourselves before with no problem, and will continue to do so in the future.
Congrats on the result. COTA is a lot of fun. They've done some bump removal since I was there last. How is it?




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JackieD86

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Congrats on the result. COTA is a lot of fun. They've done some bump removal since I was there last. How is it?
I want to say that the track surface is better, but there are still some very big bumps especially in Sector 1 in the Esses. Lots of sparks came off of our titanium splitter skid blocks haha.
 

phm14

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I hit a rough patch, near the crest of the back straight, passing traffic on the left. Didn't see them coming...a rude surprise on the R1. I didn't hit them again... ;)
 

tjyyzacc

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It sounds like some guys have had success changing their own fluid, but I was lazy and dropped it off at my local garage to do it the day before a track event. The mechanic told me he was at it for several hours, went through eight bottles of RBF660 (which I actually did see) and when I left with my car the pedal almost went to the floor. I took it back for another hour and he got the pedal a little firmer, but it wasn’t how I would have preferred it. I’m going to try and fix it myself in the driveway, but I will also be irritated if this requires the dealer each time.
 

SCCA Racer#75

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It sounds like some guys have had success changing their own fluid, but I was lazy and dropped it off at my local garage to do it the day before a track event. The mechanic told me he was at it for several hours, went through eight bottles of RBF660 (which I actually did see) and when I left with my car the pedal almost went to the floor. I took it back for another hour and he got the pedal a little firmer, but it wasn’t how I would have preferred it. I’m going to try and fix it myself in the driveway, but I will also be irritated if this requires the dealer each time.
Unfortunately your local garage owes you about 5 bottles of fluid... clearly they were inadequate, or your pedal wouldn't have went to the floor.

You just need to be patient... and have two people (you and another)..
Fill the brake reservoir with the race fluid...
Start at the passenger rear...
Pump 5 times then hold...
While the driver is 'holding'... open the bleed screw... and then as the fluid comes out... close the bleed screw.
Do this at least 5 times possibly 10, until you see the new fluid.
I personally recommend doing it 5 times, and then going to the next rear wheel...
Then do the same for the front... starting passenger front, and with the outboard bleeder... 5 times... then inboard bleeder 5 times... and then do the outboard bleeder 2 more times.
Then go to drivers side repeat.
Once done... go back to the first bleeder on passenger rear... and do 3 times...
then Drivers rear 3 times...
then each front 3 times (Outboard, Inboard) and then outboard once more.

Then you will be golden.

Car can be off.

That's what worked flawlessly for us in the garage up in the air.

Best regards,
Dave
 

tjyyzacc

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The garage was at least aware that they had issues and they didn’t charge me for the excess fluid, but I will take your advice. Thanks
 

fireball

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Unfortunately your local garage owes you about 5 bottles of fluid... clearly they were inadequate, or your pedal wouldn't have went to the floor.

You just need to be patient... and have two people (you and another)..
Fill the brake reservoir with the race fluid...
Start at the passenger rear...
Pump 5 times then hold...
While the driver is 'holding'... open the bleed screw... and then as the fluid comes out... close the bleed screw.
Do this at least 5 times possibly 10, until you see the new fluid.
I personally recommend doing it 5 times, and then going to the next rear wheel...
Then do the same for the front... starting passenger front, and with the outboard bleeder... 5 times... then inboard bleeder 5 times... and then do the outboard bleeder 2 more times.
Then go to drivers side repeat.
Once done... go back to the first bleeder on passenger rear... and do 3 times...
then Drivers rear 3 times...
then each front 3 times (Outboard, Inboard) and then outboard once more.

Then you will be golden.

Car can be off.

That's what worked flawlessly for us in the garage up in the air.

Best regards,
Dave
that bleeds all the lines, but in the latest jackie ding video where he ends up in the grass on fire, they seem to indicate that u need to cycle the abs unit with software to bleed the abs unit. is that something we could do at home utilising eg bimmercode ?
 

SCCA Racer#75

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The garage was at least aware that they had issues and they didn’t charge me for the excess fluid, but I will take your advice. Thanks
That's cool, very fair of them.

that bleeds all the lines, but in the latest jackie ding video where he ends up in the grass on fire, they seem to indicate that u need to cycle the abs unit with software to bleed the abs unit. is that something we could do at home utilising eg bimmercode ?
I haven't had this issue, but doesn't mean that isn't needed. My recommendation would be to do it the way I described above... then drive it and get into ABS a few times, or do an event... and then bleed again, and it will have cycled through the ABS.

I'm not familiar with the bimmercode, so that could allow you to do it from home as well.

Best regards,
Dave
 

lowlife

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Is it safe to say this can be avoided by using a power bleeder? Or would the ABS still need to be activated a few times to get in cleared?
 

65sohc

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What about the old fashion gravity bleed method? Open the bleeders and let the fluid trickle out until the new fluid appears.
 

tjyyzacc

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Checking back in on this thread, I did what Dave suggested above and it helped substantially. I still thought maybe it could be better though, so when I was having an alignment done I asked the shop to also give the brakes a shot as well. This wasn’t the same garage I previously had gone to, this was a legitimate performance shop and the owner asked all the right questions about the alignment and brakes before we went ahead. He did cycle the ABS as part of the job, and this is now the best the brakes have felt. The alignment was exactly what I was looking for as well. For those of you living in the Toronto area, I went to XIII Motorsports and I’d wholeheartedly endorse them.

If I’m being completely honest though I think this car needs better brakes period. There are a couple of kits out right now from Brembo and AP racing, but I don’t think a front brake upgrade should cost 10% of the value of the car. I’ve spoken to Wilwood and Stoptech and they both tell me that there are kits in the pipeline. I’m going to just wait to see what happens with those before I take the plunge.
 

65sohc

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The brakes definitely do not have the sort of initial bite one associates with a performance car. They feel more like a Camry.
 

lowlife

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So how much fluid is needed? I'm assuming 1.5L should be plenty?
 

Illsic_Design

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Has anyone used a power bleeder? What pattern should be followed?
AAE0E28E-816A-4B11-AF9E-760A76AB5E09.jpeg
Same as any car. Always start with the wheel furthest away from the master cylinder and work towards it. So pass rear, driver rear, pass front, then driver front
 

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