Death of ICE cars

[FLtrackdays]

I do think cheap electric power for cars is a short term thing though. The world is moving to electric to reduce emissions and use more renewable energy. I would bet there will be a day where it cost more to charge a car than it was to fill up gas.

Unfortunately this is likely spot on . Unless there is nuclear adoption ASAP to fuel these new technological world saving vehicles.

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[Evolution]

I do think cheap electric power for cars is a short term thing though. The world is moving to electric to reduce emissions and use more renewable energy. I would bet there will be a day where it cost more to charge a car than it was to fill up gas.

It has already started, at least here in CA. If you dont charge your car during "off peak" hours, it cost a lot more. For me, it cost $10 to charge from home. If I go after work to a charger, it cost $40. But again, since I have solar, it cost me nothing. As of next month, things are also going to get even worse for the solar part of things, starting with how much they pay you for what you feed back into the grid (new customers only). So ya, force people to go EV, then jack up the electricity prices and limit how much solar you can have.

 

[lucky phil]

I went to a local shopping centre the other day ( I'm out of town) at 0800 to grab a coffee and noticed a very distinctively painted Tesla connected to one of about 3 charging points located around the car park. I called back in at 430 PM and it was still hooked up to the charging point. Likely an employee of the shopping centre. Nice to know that people just commandeer these things all day, like it's provided for their personal use. I can't think of anything worse when I'm traveling than sitting around a roadside service location in the appalling fast food area waiting 70 minutes or so for my car to take an 80% charge so I can be on my way. When I stop for fuel I'm in and out asap. At worst I take a toilet break, grab a coffee and I'm gone. I''d rather drink the coffee in the car driving. Can't stand being at those places for any length of time.

Phil

 

[gixxersixxerman]

I went to a local shopping centre the other day ( I'm out of town) at 0800 to grab a coffee and noticed a very distinctively painted Tesla connected to one of about 3 charging points located around the car park. I called back in at 430 PM and it was still hooked up to the charging point. Likely an employee of the shopping centre. Nice to know that people just commandeer these things all day, like it's provided for their personal use. I can't think of anything worse when I'm traveling than sitting around a roadside service location in the appalling fast food area waiting 70 minutes or so for my car to take an 80% charge so I can be on my way. When I stop for fuel I'm in and out asap. At worst I take a toilet break, grab a coffee and I'm gone. I''d rather drink the coffee in the car driving. Can't stand being at those places for any length of time.

Phil

In the future, hopefully near future with Graphene batteries, it will take 5-7 mins for about 800 miles or so of charge. IF and this is about as big of an IF as the batteries, you have a charging station capable of supplying enough current to charge at the max rates. Reports state graphene batteries are so much lighter and smaller the same size battery as the current Tesla M3 is 4 times the capacity. And that they can transfer heat so much more efficient that you can throw tons of power at them. So a 1200 mile capable battery (if they keep the same size) that can charge 10 to 80% in 5-7 mins (if there is a charger that can supply the power) would be a game changer. At that point most anti EV statements are moot.

 

[razorlab]

I went to a local shopping centre the other day ( I'm out of town) at 0800 to grab a coffee and noticed a very distinctively painted Tesla connected to one of about 3 charging points located around the car park. I called back in at 430 PM and it was still hooked up to the charging point. Likely an employee of the shopping centre. Nice to know that people just commandeer these things all day, like it's provided for their personal use. I can't think of anything worse when I'm traveling than sitting around a roadside service location in the appalling fast food area waiting 70 minutes or so for my car to take an 80% charge so I can be on my way. When I stop for fuel I'm in and out asap. At worst I take a toilet break, grab a coffee and I'm gone. I''d rather drink the coffee in the car driving. Can't stand being at those places for any length of time.

Phil

We get it man, you hate progress. You probably sit on a leather seat smoking cigars and talk about the "good old days" on weekends drinking the same beer you drank in college and talk down to people that drink micro "woke" beers while grumbling about "Soy boys" that have hair slightly longer than one inch on their heads, if you can get past their "girly" scarfs around their necks. If a person that goes by "he/him/his" doesn't have an axe, a beard and a flannel, you dismiss them and tell them they are "THE LEFT" in random all caps that you parroted off stormfront.com

 

[Hillbilly]

We get it man, you hate progress. You probably sit on a leather seat smoking cigars and talk about the "good old days" on weekends drinking the same beer you drank in college and talk down to people that drink micro "woke" beers while grumbling about "Soy boys" that have hair slightly longer than one inch on their heads, if you can get past their "girly" scarfs around their necks. If a person that goes by "he/him/his" doesn't have an axe, a beard and a flannel, you dismiss them and tell them they are "THE LEFT" in random all caps that you parroted off stormfront.com

He brought up a legitimate concern. You’ve been nothing but condescending while clamoring about others’ intolerance.

There been a lot of reasonable discussion in this thread regarding electric currently existing as a carbon-shift and where we need to get to from an electric grid/battery standpoint.

Most of us aren’t going to call a shift from three minutes to fill up to a 20-30 minute charge “progress.” Electric may very well work after 10s of millions of cars age out of the system and we have a few decades more infrastructure build out. Battery tech addressing the laws of thermodynamics currently limiting the technology has always been ‘just around the corner.’ My money is on hydrogen powered by nuclear.

 

[razorlab]

He brought up a legitimate concern. You’ve been nothing but condescending while clamoring about others’ intolerance.

There been a lot of reasonable discussion in this thread regarding electric currently existing as a carbon-shift and where we need to get to from an electric grid/battery standpoint.

Most of us aren’t going to call a shift from three minutes to fill up to a 20-30 minute charge “progress.” Electric may very well work after 10s of millions of cars age out of the system and we have a few decades more infrastructure build out. Battery tech addressing the laws of thermodynamics currently limiting the technology has always been ‘just around the corner.’ My money is on hydrogen powered by nuclear.

Yea, calling people working in tech advancement "Looney teenagers" and "crazy left" is super tolerant.

Funny thing is, I 100% agree with you, other than it's actually 15mins for a Tesla charge compared to 30 minutes. We are at the beginning of the shift but you know what they say about hockey sticks... the current battery tech will be ancient tech in less than two years.

I work in the design and tech industry. The exponential advance in AI over just the last eight months after years of slow change has been astounding. My ethos is to embrace tech, even if I don't agree with some aspects of it.

Absolutely anyone that uses "woke" in a derogatory way is lost in the past and scared of change and inclusiveness.

 

[Hillbilly]

Yea, calling people working in tech advancement "Looney teenagers" and "crazy left" is super tolerant.

Funny thing is, I 100% agree with you, other than it's actually 15mins for a Tesla charge compared to 30 minutes. We are at the beginning of the shift but you know what they say about hockey sticks... the current battery tech will be ancient tech in less than two years.

I work in the design and tech industry. The exponential advance in AI over just the last eight months after years of slow change has been astounding. My ethos is to embrace tech, even if I don't agree with some aspects of it.

Absolutely anyone that uses "woke" in a derogatory way is lost in the past and scared of change and inclusiveness.

The whole thing is unfortunately political. We’re trying to shoehorn in something still not quite ready for prime time. It works for those with higher incomes (anyone on this forum with a Supra).

I make my living leveraging technology in an industry that is slow to adopt things. For myself and other senior managers, an EV is doable right now. But for 98% of the workforce (hourly manufacturing), they’re trying to make ends meet while driving vehicles worth anywhere from $2000 to $30,000. They usually don’t have a garage. Those that do wouldn’t have the budget to install a charger. We can talk about wages needing to be higher, but the challenge there is that everyone would need to be comfortable with paying at least 2x what food costs now—which will lead to some crazier inflation sprirals.

We’ll eventually move off of oil to some extent. But forcing it on people has made things political. If the tech challenges and infrastructure get sorted out, it will be a much easier sell.

 

[lucky phil]

I've got nothing against electric cars and i'd own one as a town car if they were cheaper and more practical. But the truth is as was pointed out in the Video I posted if you want to go to a full electric world, so wind, solar, wave generation, electric cars you will need to quadruple the current mining activities to get there. The ability to do that in the next 20 years is zero and the biggest supporters of renewables are the biggest anti mining people out there. BTW the guy in that presentation I posted was the interim CEO of a Battery manufacturing company for a few years. So he knows batteries.
The problem with this debate is the same as many debates these days in that anyone with a contrary opinion or thought to the "new ideas" considered a luddite or anti progress. Personally as I've pointed out I think the future is in a mix and that synthetic fuels will eventually take over from fossil fuels.

 

[FLtrackdays]

I've got nothing against electric cars and i'd own one as a town car if they were cheaper and more practical. But the truth is as was pointed out in the Video I posted if you want to go to a full electric world, so wind, solar, wave generation, electric cars you will need to quadruple the current mining activities to get there. The ability to do that in the next 20 years is zero and the biggest supporters of renewables are the biggest anti mining people out there. BTW the guy in that presentation I posted was the interim CEO of a Battery manufacturing company for a few years. So he knows batteries.
The problem with this debate is the same as many debates these days in that anyone with a contrary opinion or thought to the "new ideas" considered a luddite or anti progress. Personally as I've pointed out I think the future is in a mix and that synthetic fuels will eventually take over from fossil fuels.

You’re not even from the USA and don’t fit our stereotypes Brian is mentioning I’m sure. It is frustrating that if anyone brings up opposition, we’re considered backward thinking or not willing to move forward. I‘d like to think the majority of us are somewhere in between and would like the autonomy to think on our own and facilitate great ideas by working together.

Unfortunately Phil, we’re loosing this concept here in the USA. Healthy debate is always good. I wouldn’t assume everyone is a Greta obsessed, wood burning, climate extremest just because they love EVs or their particular market favors them. We need different ideas and the ability to voice them, here or over there

I know this can be a touchy subject for some. Really appreciate everyone’s opinions. They really are interesting to hear. And everyone owns a Supra! Making us the most credible (smartest) car owners on the planet

 

[FLtrackdays]

Positive hybrid story:

I needed a ride to my alignment shop. Got an Uber driver, selected “green” ride because I like them best. They are quiet and usually nicer Uber cars. A really nice retired guy (like most of the drivers here in SWFL) told me he gets close to 600 miles in Prius hybrid . It was quiet as hell, smooth, roomy… what’s not to like?

I couldn’t imagine being able to drive 600 miles and not needing to fill up or charge. He showed me a screen on his car how it was charging the battery. What a great way to go! Building on the future technology and having the old powering that new tech. You can read about it all day, but to see it in action, beautiful thang…

Anyways, I want one now Anything hybrid. So cool

Edit: and I bet I could fit 4 tires in there too

 

[RenRed2]

Positive hybrid story:

I needed a ride to my alignment shop. Got an Uber driver, selected “green” ride because I like them best. They are quiet and usually nicer Uber cars. A really nice retired guy (like most of the drivers here in SWFL) told me he gets close to 600 miles in Prius hybrid . It was quiet as hell, smooth, roomy… what’s not to like?

I couldn’t imagine being able to drive 600 miles and not needing to fill up or charge. He showed me a screen on his car how it was charging the battery. What a great way to go! Building on the future technology and having the old powering that new tech. You can read about it all day, but to see it in action, beautiful thang…

Anyways, I want one now Anything hybrid. So cool

Edit: and I bet I could fit 4 tires in there too

I think if 1 needed a single car and thats all you could have........thats the most car for a practical life, space, economy etc. Its an excellent choice and tool for living. Total respect!

 

[XtremeMaC]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...omizable-acceleration-curves-performance-evs/

The system would let drivers customize throttle response and behavior under acceleration, even making it so that car could imitate the characteristics of a gas-powered vehicle.

 

[KahnBB6]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...omizable-acceleration-curves-performance-evs/

The system would let drivers customize throttle response and behavior under acceleration, even making it so that car could imitate the characteristics of a gas-powered vehicle.

BMW appears to view this system as a way to make high-performance EVs more engaging. The patent explains the customizable graphs "can have an emotional character and delight the vehicle user," describing the system as "a fun interactive option" and that "technology-minded vehicle users will especially enjoy this."

The system would offer an alternative to the way many EVs currently drive, where torque and power delivery feels linear and immediate. The system would allow for speed and acceleration to build gradually, and the adjustable curves could even allow drivers to set up their cars to imitate the acceleration curves of gas-powered cars.

This is good.

But... since the PHYSICAL HARDWARE that you have bought is filly capable of whatever it is programmed to do, will BMW make this a standard part of the vehicle settings? Will they make it a subscription-only add-on feature that expires the moment you stop paying them the subscription fee?

If it is subscription based then no thanks. I'll go with an eventual hack/crack that allows aftermarket tuning without the subscription BS just to program a car I already own how I want it to be programmed.

Furthermore, is it only for the privileged full M-cars or will all BMWs benefit from this fully programmable feel feature? And if you buy a regular BMW sedan or coupe that isn't a true "M", will you only be able to have *some* of the customization that the full M-cars get?

Because other than the limitations of a car's physical motor(s), inverter(s) and battery pack there is no reason at all that any BMW model can't have this wide programmable flexibility as a standard feature even if some models have different ultimate power limitations in their physical hardware compared to top of the line variants.

I wouldn't put it past BMW to lock something obvious like this behind a subscription paywall just as they initially did for the enabling of built-in heated seat circuits.

It is hard to imagine that BMW, like other automakers, won't play those shenanigans but here's hoping they won't.

 

[XtremeMaC]

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/05/03/bosch-nikola-are-ready-with-hydrogen/

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