Death of ICE cars

[FLtrackdays]

Love Toyoda‘s transparency and his take on where the car industry is at. I feel like it’s a more honest opinion. And I personally like the idea of hybrids. Building on our current infrastructure while we explore all these new alternatives.

https://wonderfulengineering.com/to...jority-is-not-convinced-on-an-ev-only-future/

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[FLtrackdays]

The new Prius looks kinda nice. Ain’t gonna lie… And it’s not a full EV but uses battery technology, mega win win imo. Until we get there….

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023-toyota-prius-first-look-review/

I’ve read some other reviews and Toyota gets for not going full EV by “insert the blank” date. Just review the car for god’s sake….

 

[mmspider]

I notice a lot of people use the word "never" a lot. Clearly the world will not be using fossil fuels on a mass scale forever. Its not even possible with a finite supply of oil. Rather it takes 50 or 500 years is the only thing up for debate. Electricity seems like the best option for the short term seeing how its likely to be around forever and its possible to run green electricity. Although is not possible to run green electricity on a mass scale which is why we still use fossil fuels. But I would think in the very long term a lot of those problems can be solved.

In my basic viewpoint electric vehicles and proper infrastructure will eventually succeed. But the time line in which that occurs is the only thing really up for debate. To say we will be ready for most people driving electric cars next decade is kind of laughable.

 

[KahnBB6]

For *most* kinds of common vehicles that aren't high performance or heavy duty industrial/commercial the conventional 100% EV technology in 2023 is pretty much there for *most* people. But still has significant limitations and the charging infrastructure isn't nearly there yet. This is going to all seem VERY different in only 7 years or so both technologically and in terms of the infrastructure. Much more 12 years from now.

I mean, considering the majority of new vehicle sales are boring crossovers and big mall crawler SUVs and pickup trucks with little visual or special appeal anyway I don't think it would change very much in terms of the overall experience if they were all suddenly powered by 100% electricity. They'd still be boring as hell to drive and people would still buy them in droves.

But in terms of time... it's all our choice but the planet itself isn't waiting around for us to make this and other carbon-reducing efforts across the board. IT will survive no matter what. The question is, how well will we and other animal species if we don't severely reduce using oil combustion fuels?

It's going to be a mix of ICE, ICE hybrid and 100% EVs for a while yet even into 2035 but there will continue to be further market penetration of EVs... which will get better technologically at least by 2025-2028.

One of the glaring issues I am seeing right now is in how automakers are testing the waters with very locked down programming and features in their EV models... and in the styling and overall design of their EV models. That's very anti-consumer, anti-repair... and certainly anti-modification/tuning.

(And yeah, EV powertrain tuning and modification is a totally different animal than it is with internal combustion engines but it still can be done to an extent with software and hardware changes and should be creatively explored on the owner/aftermarket side of things into the future).

A skateboard chassis with a minimalist interior, a barren dashboard and touchscreens everywhere that feels disconnected from the road in a crossover body shape is not appealing IMO and I refuse to give my money to that. It has nothing to do with whether the vehicle is ICE or 100% EV.

Mercedes for instance just announced the early warning for discontinuation of nearly all its coupes and even what station wagons they still manufacture.

Call me old fashioned but if I want a vehicle with more everyday utilitarian cargo space I want either a hatchback or a station wagon. Crossovers and SUVs (unless we're talking a purpose designed off-roader like a Toyota FJ70, old Defender, G-Wagen, Suzuki Jimny, new Ford Bronco, Ineos Grenadier or Jeep Wrangler) are expensive irrelevance. That *should* be a separate issue but it dovetails along with electrification strategies on the part of some manufacturers unfortunately.

But herein lies the problem of multiple lasting and new trends in the automotive industry all converging at the same time.

Inevitable electrification is only one of them. I'm not concerned so much about that one (since we'll still have support for the special classics and special new-ish ICE models for some time to come) and am much more concerned about the KIND of models and designs being made for new sales in the near term and long term future.

The battery cell technology, ultra-capacitor technology, inverter technology, hydrogen fuel cell technology, etc. and the charging infrastructure and larger issue of more carbon neutral electric power generation are progressing along steadily.

It's the way in which the automakers are handling the overall designs for their new 100% EV vehicles which concern me far more. Some upcoming models have more promise than others in getting the full package closer to doing it right... while a few current EV models and some concepts are perfect examples of how to do vehicle design totally wrong.

 

[XtremeMaC]

Btw, like BG or not

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/14/bill-gates-concepts-to-understand-the-climate-crisis.html

31% Making things, like cement, steel and plastic
27% Electricity
19% Growing things, including plants and animals
16% Transportation, including planes, trucks and cargo ships
7% Temperature regulation, meaning heating, cooling and refrigeration

There are other venues to pound on for sure...

With transportation supposedly going down, how much will the electricity production increase offset this? Talks of more nuclear..

 

[KahnBB6]

Traditional nuclear fission power plants don't have to be the way that method is expanded. Molten salt reactors are far safer than uranium reactors and are more or less inherently incapable of causing environmental radiation damage from a meltdown of the core due to cooling system failures. Thorium nuclear fission reactors are another alternative to uranium.

There have been a number of small test case thorium reactors demonstrated but the nuclear industry in the U.S. has been reluctant to move forward with it on a larger scale.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_reactor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power

Despite the recent breakthrough in nuclear fusion research and development we are still a very long way off from any practical commercial application of that technology. Probably much later in our lifetimes but not anytime soon.

But we do have alternative nuclear fission power plant technologies that don't present the drawbacks that happened at Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima. The industry just hasn't been motivated to act on these alternatives yet. There are advantages and disadvantages to both the molten salt and thorium approaches but pros and cons also apply to enriched uranium fission reactor power plants... which we've witnessed firsthand since 1979.

 

[FLtrackdays]

One of the glaring issues I am seeing right now is in how automakers are testing the waters with very locked down programming and features in their EV models... and in the styling and overall design of their EV models. That's very anti-consumer, anti-repair... and certainly anti-modification/tuning..

this great point

Btw, like BG or not

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/14/bill-gates-concepts-to-understand-the-climate-crisis.html

31% Making things, like cement, steel and plastic
27% Electricity
19% Growing things, including plants and animals
16% Transportation, including planes, trucks and cargo ships
7% Temperature regulation, meaning heating, cooling and refrigeration

There are other venues to pound on for sure...

With transportation supposedly going down, how much will the electricity production increase offset this? Talks of more nuclear..

Love the nuclear option! Why not explore it more (insert lobbyist $$$)? Not enough back scratching in that area for sure.

 

[zrk]

For *most* kinds of common vehicles that aren't high performance or heavy duty industrial/commercial the conventional 100% EV technology in 2023 is pretty much there for *most* people. But still has significant limitations and the charging infrastructure isn't nearly there yet. This is going to all seem VERY different in only 7 years or so both technologically and in terms of the infrastructure. Much more 12 years from now.

I mean, considering the majority of new vehicle sales are boring crossovers and big mall crawler SUVs and pickup trucks with little visual or special appeal anyway I don't think it would change very much in terms of the overall experience if they were all suddenly powered by 100% electricity. They'd still be boring as hell to drive and people would still buy them in droves.

But in terms of time... it's all our choice but the planet itself isn't waiting around for us to make this and other carbon-reducing efforts across the board. IT will survive no matter what. The question is, how well will we and other animal species if we don't severely reduce using oil combustion fuels?

It's going to be a mix of ICE, ICE hybrid and 100% EVs for a while yet even into 2035 but there will continue to be further market penetration of EVs... which will get better technologically at least by 2025-2028.

One of the glaring issues I am seeing right now is in how automakers are testing the waters with very locked down programming and features in their EV models... and in the styling and overall design of their EV models. That's very anti-consumer, anti-repair... and certainly anti-modification/tuning.

(And yeah, EV powertrain tuning and modification is a totally different animal than it is with internal combustion engines but it still can be done to an extent with software and hardware changes and should be creatively explored on the owner/aftermarket side of things into the future).

A skateboard chassis with a minimalist interior, a barren dashboard and touchscreens everywhere that feels disconnected from the road in a crossover body shape is not appealing IMO and I refuse to give my money to that. It has nothing to do with whether the vehicle is ICE or 100% EV.

Mercedes for instance just announced the early warning for discontinuation of nearly all its coupes and even what station wagons they still manufacture.

Call me old fashioned but if I want a vehicle with more everyday utilitarian cargo space I want either a hatchback or a station wagon. Crossovers and SUVs (unless we're talking a purpose designed off-roader like a Toyota FJ70, old Defender, G-Wagen, Suzuki Jimny, new Ford Bronco, Ineos Grenadier or Jeep Wrangler) are expensive irrelevance. That *should* be a separate issue but it dovetails along with electrification strategies on the part of some manufacturers unfortunately.

But herein lies the problem of multiple lasting and new trends in the automotive industry all converging at the same time.

Inevitable electrification is only one of them. I'm not concerned so much about that one (since we'll still have support for the special classics and special new-ish ICE models for some time to come) and am much more concerned about the KIND of models and designs being made for new sales in the near term and long term future.

The battery cell technology, ultra-capacitor technology, inverter technology, hydrogen fuel cell technology, etc. and the charging infrastructure and larger issue of more carbon neutral electric power generation are progressing along steadily.

It's the way in which the automakers are handling the overall designs for their new 100% EV vehicles which concern me far more. Some upcoming models have more promise than others in getting the full package closer to doing it right... while a few current EV models and some concepts are perfect examples of how to do vehicle design totally wrong.

This guy fucks.

 

[KahnBB6]

This is interesting coming from Ferrari:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/ferra...uster-pulse-jet-handling-system-for-supercars

And so they claim, Nissan is on track to begin introducing their solid state batteries in 2028. THey also make some claims about another evolution and improvement of lithium-ion battery pack technology that will overlap with the introduction of solid state packs in that timeframe.

https://www.motor1.com/news/650636/2028-nissan-solid-state-battery-details/

 

[RenRed2]

Bank of America Becomes First National Bank to Let Customers Finance Chargers With Their EVs
While there are state programs and smaller banks across the country that offer charger financing, Bank of America is the first national bank to do so.

https://jalopnik.com/bank-of-america-becomes-first-national-bank-to-let-cust-1850088975

 

[Evolution]

Glad my electric car came with a free charger and install. Although I honestly could have done it myself in like 30 min...

 

[FLtrackdays]

I was reading an article that made me feel a little bit better about EVs. The guy did a decent job with some points:

https://www.motortrend.com/features/truth-about-electric-cars-ad-why-you-are-being-lied-to/

However, I read somewhere else that EV etiquette says you shouldn’t do a full charge if someone is waiting for the charger you’re using. This is so hard to grasp with the ability to fill up my ICE car all the way. They need to nip this in the bud, imo, and have a next up to charge display (time for next person in line until full charge complete).

Anyone experience this issue? Someone waiting to charge next and you feel compelled to end your charge early.

 

[Bigboss]

Why tf do people live in California for the state sucks especially if you like cars lmaooo

 

[MYA90SUPRA]

I was reading an article that made me feel a little bit better about EVs. The guy did a decent job with some points:

https://www.motortrend.com/features/truth-about-electric-cars-ad-why-you-are-being-lied-to/

However, I read somewhere else that EV etiquette says you shouldn’t do a full charge if someone is waiting for the charger you’re using. This is so hard to grasp with the ability to fill up my ICE car all the way. They need to nip this in the bud, imo, and have a next up to charge display (time for next person in line until full charge complete).

Anyone experience this issue? Someone waiting to charge next and you feel compelled to end your charge early.

Well for lithium ion batteries you don't want to charge over 80% because doing so many times will hurt the battery. So when you are at a supercharger you wanna quit at 80% so you are not really topping off. Plus once you get closer to 90% the amount of power the battery takes in drops drastically.

In my opinion there are lots of things you gotta remember for electric cars to improve your experience with them. They are not really a drive and enjoy tool. Hopefully in the future they become just like current ice cars.

 

[decodeddiesel]

The new Prius looks kinda nice. Ain’t gonna lie… And it’s not a full EV but uses battery technology, mega win win imo. Until we get there….

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023-toyota-prius-first-look-review/

I’ve read some other reviews and Toyota gets for not going full EV by “insert the blank” date. Just review the car for god’s sake….

I am very interested in the new Prius AWD too. It would be the perfect DD to compliment the Supra.

Being an automotive engineer I have a lot of insite into what's going on behind the scenes at a lot of the OEMs. They're scrambling to rush EVs to the market for political reasons, but all of them are putting huge money into H2 options, especially Toyota.

One of my research studies in 2023 was exploring hydrogen compatibility with existing materials used in the auto industry. One of my other projects was designing a hydrogen compatible series of vent valves for use in fuel cells. Much of the interest there is in commercial vehicles (read tractor trailers) because the performance of EV trucks is pathetic in cold weather.

Don't kid yourself into thinking EVs are safer or or better for the environment than HVs. They're not.

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