Death of ICE cars

[XtremeMaC]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a44288618/we-dont-need-every-cheap-ev-ok

What a waste of my time that article was...
Most developed countries don't want Chinese made cars, ICE or EV that are beyond crap, tiny and can't pass EU/US regulatory tests. Period...
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OEMs, even tiny volume Ferrari can say whatever they want, but if they cannot collectively convince lawmakers on CAFE etc. emissions stuff by either making a case for how expensive, heavy, etc. that cars are getting and/or showcase alternative fuel cells, e-fuel, etc. then it's equivalent to "2 weeks" ? BS, nothing more.

On the other side of the island, completely different approach...., Lamborghini stopped ICE only sales until 2030. I don't know what the heck that means. They've so much unsold cars? They can't do quick maths as it's 7 years away... Dunno.

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[lucky phil]

The issue with this discussion and reflected in the topics heading is everyone seems to need to take a side just like everything else these days. The medium to long term future will be a mix of fuel types suitable for the application. As for the "no new ICE cars after 2030" as mandated by the British, well good luck with that, it simple won't happen and they will push that back and kick that can down the road for decades the same as they did with Euro 5 emission regs which were over 10 years behind mandated implementation.
The Jurno asked for an explanation a 5 year old could understand and there in lies the issue. It's a complex situation and currently being driven politically by, well, a 5 year olds technical comprehension.

Phil

 

[FLtrackdays]

The issue with this discussion and reflected in the topics heading is everyone seems to need to take a side just like everything else these days. The medium to long term future will be a mix of fuel types suitable for the application. As for the "no new ICE cars after 2030" as mandated by the British, well good luck with that, it simple won't happen and they will push that back and kick that can down the road for decades the same as they did with Euro 5 emission regs which were over 10 years behind mandated implementation.
The Jurno asked for an explanation a 5 year old could understand and there in lies the issue. It's a complex situation and currently being driven politically by, well, a 5 year olds technical comprehension.

Phil

Amen. At the time I posted this, one of our State governors claimed they were going to push/enforce total EV conversion for all via government intervention. I’ve got nothing against EV’s continual evolvement. But assuming any politician or lobbyist funding their campaign has more knowledge than everyone else is absurd. Capitalism wasn’t created by any government. You buy what works. Major breakthroughs fly like hotcakes. Failures flop. It’s pretty simple.

So that was the fear at the time. Along with the ability to discuss their pitfalls. For a bit, the car mags appeared to be another arm of the government. EVs could do no wrong. They were zero emission magic. I’m glad we‘re able finally discuss it all, see both sides of the coin and make a choice

 

[FLtrackdays]

Time of use:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a44899834/costs-to-charge-electric-vehicle/

At least they are starting to mention it now. Cost will greatly vary based on when you charge and hopefully their next article… grid supply. Rolling blackouts are no fun. We’re going to need some better OJ ? when demand exceeds supply on the other side of that plug ?

 

[digicidal]

The biggest issue with almost any ruling by fiat (regardless of how significant or proximal the problem they were created to solve) is that the few in power are never the same as the few with adequate knowledge and experience of the problem to propose solutions. Doesn't matter if you're talking about a representative democracy or a totalitarian dictatorship.

Despite a frighteningly large number of our "leaders" being so old and demented they're unsure of where they are at any given time... I'm positive the nuanced aspects of climate change, mechanical engineering, and grid deficiencies won't be a problem for them.

Politicians, billionaires, and celebrities have already solved all of the other issues we've faced successfully... this one shouldn't be any different.

 

[FLtrackdays]

The biggest issue with almost any ruling by fiat (regardless of how significant or proximal the problem they were created to solve) is that the few in power are never the same as the few with adequate knowledge and experience of the problem to propose solutions. Doesn't matter if you're talking about a representative democracy or a totalitarian dictatorship.

Despite a frighteningly large number of our "leaders" being so old and demented they're unsure of where they are at any given time... I'm positive the nuanced aspects of climate change, mechanical engineering, and grid deficiencies won't be a problem for them.

Politicians, billionaires, and celebrities have already solved all of the other issues we've faced successfully... this one shouldn't be any different.

So sadly true. You are always spot on dig! Love to hear from ya ?

 

[XtremeMaC]

Time of use:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a44899834/costs-to-charge-electric-vehicle/

At least they are starting to mention it now. Cost will greatly vary based on when you charge and hopefully their next article… grid supply. Rolling blackouts are no fun. We’re going to need some better OJ ? when demand exceeds supply on the other side of that plug ?

Don't forget the 'miles driven' tax and other EV taxes that are on the way.. For a true total cost of ownership.

 

[PerformanceSound]

Don't forget the 'miles driven' tax and other EV taxes that are on the way.. For a true total cost of ownership.

They will always find a way to tax us. The vehicle can be 100% clean, and they will find some “usage tax” to collect on. Crazy.

 

[MYA90SUPRA]

They will always find a way to tax us. The vehicle can be 100% clean, and they will find some “usage tax” to collect on. Crazy.

Yes they will. Only way to reduce tax burden on people is have no debt and reduce the number of items "wanted".

 

[Evolution]

They will always find a way to tax us. The vehicle can be 100% clean, and they will find some “usage tax” to collect on. Crazy.

I dont know if its just in CA but my $30k electric car cost more to register every year than my $60k Supra. I will have to look at the fee breakdown to see if there is some sort of electric surcharge or something like that but it seems like they have already started the extra tax stuff.

 

[MYA90SUPRA]

I dont know if its just in CA but my $30k electric car cost more to register every year than my $60k Supra. I will have to look at the fee breakdown to see if there is some sort of electric surcharge or something like that but it seems like they have already started the extra tax stuff.

That is the same in Wyoming. There is a 200 dollar registration fee on top of the original tax.

 

[J29DB03]

I can actually understand the taxes because everyone should pay for the “upkeep” (term used lightly) of the infrastructure. Petrol cars have a gas tax, electric cars should have a tax to compensate. However, the implementation and regulation of the taxes are a whole ‘nother kettle of fish.

 

[PerformanceSound]

For ICE cars I understand, because the carbon emissions do actually cause some damage (very minor) to the environment and roads (i.e., unburnt fuels, leaks, brake dust, etc...). However, an EV has very miniscule damage other than tire wear and brake dust....of which is very very minor in terms of environmental damage. If anything, the weight of an EV would be more damaging to certain local roads because of road weight limits, but honestly it is a total scam by the local ordinances. Whats more frightening, is with EV's....soon if you have any overdue unpaid fees, they can possibly disable your vehicle on the spot. It's already being implemented in Europe, and I can't imagine they won't adopt it here. Crazy.

 

[ApexTheory]

For ICE cars I understand, because the carbon emissions do actually cause some damage (very minor) to the environment and roads (i.e., unburnt fuels, leaks, brake dust, etc...). However, an EV has very miniscule damage other than tire wear and brake dust....of which is very very minor in terms of environmental damage. If anything, the weight of an EV would be more damaging to certain local roads because of road weight limits, but honestly it is a total scam by the local ordinances. Whats more frightening, is with EV's....soon if you have any overdue unpaid fees, they can possibly disable your vehicle on the spot. It's already being implemented in Europe, and I can't imagine they won't adopt it here. Crazy.

EV's just relocate the emissions, so the usage taxes should still apply. Sure, you can generate gross power more efficiently, but there are losses attributed to distance and transformers. It all depends on the sources feeding the electric grid.

Society as a whole needs to get better at this full-cost accounting thing.

 

[XtremeMaC]

EV's just relocate the emissions, so the usage taxes should still apply. Sure, you can generate gross power more efficiently, but there are losses attributed to distance and transformers. It all depends on the sources feeding the electric grid.

Society as a whole needs to get better at this full-cost accounting thing.

While I totally agree, most of the cost of oil infrastructure depreciated already while everything is new for EV and hydrogen and are at high cost. I don't know who can properly normalize, appreciate, etc. these oil costs.. Some are backed, subsidized,...

Anyhow it'll be massive cluster f for few decades until and if everyone, at least in certain countries, switch to EV.. Special EV zones like Germany has.. have to get passes.. Probably people will be forced to put home EV chargers on some separate circuit and maybe charged at different rate... Could already be in place. I don't have an EV. Dunno for sure..
With hybrid and EV you can indeed use solar as you go or even wind? Why is no one putting wind turbines on the cars is beyond me ? During peak hours you could supply back to the grid and get money back ? More wear n tear on battery.... Then you don't own the battery. Then people claim battery is completely recyclable... Dunno what happened to BYD with battery replace stations. I know shit exists for bikes. Haven't seen for cars...

Same arguments for all well-to-wheel for oil, wind, solar, hydro, nuclear, etc..
I read articles but I'm 100% sure they're omitting many things in figuring out total cost and emission impact...

EV weights and I'd say tire as well. You're likely to go thru a tire quicker. For sure there are EV tires now, but they're directed more towards NVH and brake performance..

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