Full throttle -- RPM's climb fast but car doesn't accelerate correspondingly

[lucky phil]

I am over 700nm torque (520+ft lb) e50 tuned and not a hint of clutch slip. I dont launch the car or power shift (most NLS if i need to). I don't lug it either. At 7k miles, most of them tuned.

I do this because I learned my lesson on my GTI a decade ago. I used to lug it all the time, be rough on the clutch, then the moment I tuned it, it was slipping like a mf. Bryan is 100% right about VW clutches lol...

Of course the supra clutch will go at some point, but yes, driving habits do matter!

Nicely said and a torque number. When you've laid under enough cars pulling clutches and gearboxes without a lift you learn to look after them technique wise. A lot of people won't believe that technique is a massive part of clutch life though.
Reminds me when I was much much younger and I was driving around the suburbs with my mate and he noticed that I didn't downshift through every gear in the box coming to a stop. I'd just downshift from 4th to 3rd and then brake to a stop and then select first when I needed to. He said to me, "why do you drive like that" thats the wrong way to drive a manual. My response was "because brake pads are cheaper and easier to replace than syncros" He seemed happy with that answer.
Phil

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[razorlab]

I do have to hand it to Phil, he def has strong opinions strongly held. Which is on brand.

 

[bk5]

IDK, my old WRX had a turbo swap and the stock clutch lasted until I got rid of it (around 80k). Both of my 1.8Ts had tune + downpipe one lasted until I got rid of it (90k) and the other made it to 120k, but limped that last year or so. My Mustang had light mods, but did a lot of test and tune nights and was generally beat on, and still made it to 90k, when I sold it.

The only car I've had the clutch fail early on was my Gen Coupe, which I bought modded. But it still had like 60k on it when the clutch went.

Yesterday, the soup revved to the moon when I rolled on it in first (it might have been my bald tires spinning, but not making noise, but I doubt it). 13k miles. Granted, I did to 3 passes at the drag strip a year ago, but I did like 100 in the Mustang. I wasn't expecting 100k out of it, but 50k would have been reasonable.

Sadly, a lot of new cars have weak clutches. The GTI and Si are both in the same boat.

 

[razorlab]

It's almost as if modding a car makes it operate out of it's intended envelope and you have to upgrade things.

 

[lucky phil]

IDK, my old WRX had a turbo swap and the stock clutch lasted until I got rid of it (around 80k). Both of my 1.8Ts had tune + downpipe one lasted until I got rid of it (90k) and the other made it to 120k, but limped that last year or so. My Mustang had light mods, but did a lot of test and tune nights and was generally beat on, and still made it to 90k, when I sold it.

The only car I've had the clutch fail early on was my Gen Coupe, which I bought modded. But it still had like 60k on it when the clutch went.

Yesterday, the soup revved to the moon when I rolled on it in first (it might have been my bald tires spinning, but not making noise, but I doubt it). 13k miles. Granted, I did to 3 passes at the drag strip a year ago, but I did like 100 in the Mustang. I wasn't expecting 100k out of it, but 50k would have been reasonable.

Sadly, a lot of new cars have weak clutches. The GTI and Si are both in the same boat.

Bald tyres, first gear and you think it was clutch slip!
Phil

 

[tuskenraider]

I would add that in the 3 instances in my lifetime a clutch's end of life was reached, it was usually on the highway cruising in 5 or 6th gear. Giving the car a good bit of gas, but not requiring a downshift, only to watch the revs climb and the speed not. That's how I would test for slippage in this case, not trying to rip up the tires in the first three gears and confusing wheel spin and clutch slippage.

 

[lucky phil]

I would add that in the 3 instances in my lifetime a clutch's end of life was reached, it was usually on the highway cruising in 5 or 6th gear. Giving the car a good bit of gas, but not requiring a downshift, only to watch the revs climb and the speed not. That's how I would test for slippage in this case, not trying to rip up the tires in the first three gears and confusing wheel spin and clutch slippage.

Pretty much the way to test a clutch. I usually use 3rd or 4th gear with the engine at around it's peak torque rpm then go WOT instantly. If it passes that then the same again but add a fast as possible shift into the next highest gear and WOT again as instantly as you can. The second part is to see if it will hold with some driveline shock. Sometimes they pass the first test but not the second so then you've got some time to organise a clutch job and drive it accordingly till it's done. If a road car is slipping the clutch when it's fully engaged in first then it'll be close to undriveable in the higher gears. The taller gears provide the most clutch load for the test. 5th or 6th gear you need a highway/freeway where 3rd and 4th you can do on a quiet suburban road or ahem, an airport tarmac on nightshift.
Phil

 

[Perfectelu]

Horseshit.

The majority of "manual drivers" have no clue what they're doing. Sure they can slam it into gear, but being a driver who can competently finesse a clutch is something different. I'm on a stage 2 OTS and the clutch has zero issues now after around 10,000km. Folks these days just don't know how to drive an MT properly.. or abuse the car, then blame the clutch while they're holding the can.

I strongly suspect the majority of clutch issues under 500hp/550 odd torque are likely user error.

Had to respond to this one. 23 MT owner here. Bought it new. Proper break-in. Car now has 28k on the dash. Never had a clutch fail in 15 years of driving different sports cars. This car on the other hand, having only been modded with a catless DP, has been having the clutch slip for the last 5k miles. Car has never been drifted or tracked. It’s a daily driver that gets driven spiritedly. It should absolutely be noted that BMW clutches are prone to slip. It just is what it is.

With that said, I have no idea how you communicate the way you do. Dismissing all because your view is the only one that matters.

It is apparent and obvious that these clutches are prone to slippage. B58/S58 owners alike. Go do your own research before dismissing.

 

[BMWAF]

Had to respond to this one. 23 MT owner here. Bought it new. Proper break-in. Car now has 28k on the dash. Never had a clutch fail in 15 years of driving different sports cars. This car on the other hand, having only been modded with a catless DP, has been having the clutch slip for the last 5k miles. Car has never been drifted or tracked. It’s a daily driver that gets driven spiritedly. It should absolutely be noted that BMW clutches are prone to slip. It just is what it is.

You have literally missed a swathe of possible reasons for you experiencing this issue.

With that said, I have no idea how you communicate the way you do. Dismissing all because your view is the only one that matters.

Maybe learn to read, I don't know.. Majority qualified my statement as did the word suggest. Maybe you are an outlier? As for my opinion, maybe you just want people to blindly agree with your point of view. Me too man, me too. #feels.

Besides, you are the one generalizing and presenting your particular experience as a common problem, going as far as to blame the entire BMW line, with fuck all evidence to support your claims. My car has been stage 2 tuned for nearly 10,000km. Zero slippage. Maybe I'm an outlier.. or maybe you are incorrect in some of your generalizations.

It is apparent and obvious that these clutches are prone to slippage. B58/S58 owners alike. Go do your own research before dismissing.

It really isn't. Why not start a poll on here and see how many people have slipping clutches in their Supras? Your personal experience is creating a bias in your thinking that you seem to be unable to recognize.

Case in point: I personally believe the 1-2 shift in my Supra is easily the worst I have experienced in any manual car. Now after canvassing people, it appears most people think the transmission is great and don't complain about the 1-2 shift at all. That doesn't negate my experience, nor does it invalidate the majority who have spoken. I'm still not sure what is going on with my 1-2 shifts but I surmise that It's likely that:

1. My driving style is contributing to my experience, or
2. My expectations are higher than average, or
3. Other people's expectations are lower than mine, or
4. My car's 1-2 shift just so happens to be Friday built, or
5. Something else or a combination of all of the above.

What it doesn't mean, is that all BMW's have shit 1-2 shifts and everyone bar me is wrong in their experience/opinion because it conflicts with my own.

 

[PowerGetter]

just going to throw this in here. I have 11.8K miles, 10 track events. During this event (in this spliced together clip of slip), I was running 485HP, 470wtq.

 

[ChanceT]

^^ wow, that slip! My slip is not that bad, but it's there.

Edit: I am nearly the same power as you but slightly more mileage now at 14k.

 

[Perfectelu]

You have literally missed a swathe of possible reasons for you experiencing this issue.



Maybe learn to read, I don't know.. Majority qualified my statement as did the word suggest. Maybe you are an outlier? As for my opinion, maybe you just want people to blindly agree with your point of view. Me too man, me too. #feels.

Besides, you are the one generalizing and presenting your particular experience as a common problem, going as far as to blame the entire BMW line, with fuck all evidence to support your claims. My car has been stage 2 tuned for nearly 10,000km. Zero slippage. Maybe I'm an outlier.. or maybe you are incorrect in some of your generalizations.



It really isn't. Why not start a poll on here and see how many people have slipping clutches in their Supras? Your personal experience is creating a bias in your thinking that you seem to be unable to recognize.

Case in point: I personally believe the 1-2 shift in my Supra is easily the worst I have experienced in any manual car. Now after canvassing people, it appears most people think the transmission is great and don't complain about the 1-2 shift at all. That doesn't negate my experience, nor does it invalidate the majority who have spoken. I'm still not sure what is going on with my 1-2 shifts but I surmise that It's likely that:

1. My driving style is contributing to my experience, or
2. My expectations are higher than average, or
3. Other people's expectations are lower than mine, or
4. My car's 1-2 shift just so happens to be Friday built, or
5. Something else or a combination of all of the above.

What it doesn't mean, is that all BMW's have shit 1-2 shifts and everyone bar me is wrong in their experience/opinion because it conflicts with my own.

Now more than ever. I’m convinced you don’t know what you’re talking about. Clutch slip for b58/s58 is common. If it wasn’t, the many threads and comments relaying the same thing wouldn’t be necessary. Definitely easier to claim “I’m a better driver than everyone else” lol.

 

[lucky phil]

Now more than ever. I’m convinced you don’t know what you’re talking about. Clutch slip for b58/s58 is common. If it wasn’t, the many threads and comments relaying the same thing wouldn’t be necessary. Definitely easier to claim “I’m a better driver than everyone else” lol.

So are drivers that can't use a clutch without killing it.
Phil

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