Full throttle -- RPM's climb fast but car doesn't accelerate correspondingly

[ChanceT]

Here's a pretty typical "the clutch won't handle a modest increase in HP without slipping" scenario/story. The user has already glazed the clutch friction plate and flywheel face with poor clutch skills/operation. The first sign is clutch slipping under maximum torque application or a modest increase in torque/power. It therefore follows in the minds of some that the clutch is a weak link and the internet explodes with the fictional or frictional story, lol. It's the same reason that some people can basically get a whole of vehicle life out of a clutch and other people can trash the same clutch under the same power output in 10,000 miles. Thats why manufacturers won't warranty clutches. They know whats going on.
Phil

Great story, looking forward to read more.

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[splv]

You sure you aren’t driving a Honda VTEC?

 

[tracer bullet]

It therefore follows in the minds of some that the clutch is a weak link and the internet explodes with the fictional or frictional story, lol.

Or, the clutch disc from the factory has material and clamping force designed for the power the engine is running at, and isn't aggressive enough to hold higher power levels. Because if they'd had the clutch that could handle those levels, most owners would complain of drivability problems and stall their cars.

 

[lucky phil]

Or, the clutch disc from the factory has material and clamping force designed for the power the engine is running at, and isn't aggressive enough to hold higher power levels. Because if they'd had the clutch that could handle those levels, most owners would complain of drivability problems and stall their cars.

Maybe but I've never seen a clutch with only 20% headroom over stock, even on a grocery getter. With that little margin there would be literally 75% of owners with slipping clutches on stock HP within a very short time.
Phil

 

[Evolution]

Maybe but I've never seen a clutch with only 20% headroom over stock, even on a grocery getter. With that little margin there would be literally 75% of owners with slipping clutches on stock HP within a very short time.
Phil

20% in a grocery getter is like 20tq and 30hp. 20% in a Supra is like 80hp and 100tq more. Not really apples to apples especially since Tq is the killer.

 

[lucky phil]

20% in a grocery getter is like 20tq and 30hp. 20% in a Supra is like 80hp and 100tq more. Not really apples to apples especially since Tq is the killer.

Yes torque is the killer. I forgot the calculation reverses between small and larger output engines.
Phil

 

[Hasan]

Here's a pretty typical "the clutch won't handle a modest increase in HP without slipping" scenario/story. The user has already glazed the clutch friction plate and flywheel face with poor clutch skills/operation. The first sign is clutch slipping under maximum torque application or a modest increase in torque/power. It therefore follows in the minds of some that the clutch is a weak link and the internet explodes with the fictional or frictional story, lol. It's the same reason that some people can basically get a whole of vehicle life out of a clutch and other people can trash the same clutch under the same power output in 10,000 miles. Thats why manufacturers won't warranty clutches. They know whats going on.
Phil

Thats harsh sir. Very harsh.

 

[Hasan]

How about the clutch diameter? Is it a reasonable size for the torque output?

 

[lucky phil]

Thats harsh sir. Very harsh.

Really. It's just a general comment, not aimed at anyone in particular.
Phil

 

[BMWAF]

I haven't upgraded since I'm still at stock power. However, I did see all the threads pop up when the MT's first came out so part of my plan for when I do eventually add Downpipe + Tune is to upgrade to a PTB Clutch

Horseshit.

The majority of "manual drivers" have no clue what they're doing. Sure they can slam it into gear, but being a driver who can competently finesse a clutch is something different. I'm on a stage 2 OTS and the clutch has zero issues now after around 10,000km. Folks these days just don't know how to drive an MT properly.. or abuse the car, then blame the clutch while they're holding the can.

I strongly suspect the majority of clutch issues under 500hp/550 odd torque are likely user error.

 

[tracer bullet]

Yes torque is the killer. I forgot the calculation reverses between small and larger output engines.
Phil

Going with their #'s, let's say 350 - 470 WHP, it's ~ 35% bump.

 

[razorlab]

Maybe but I've never seen a clutch with only 20% headroom over stock, even on a grocery getter. With that little margin there would be literally 75% of owners with slipping clutches on stock HP within a very short time.
Phil

I introduce you to every VW.

 

[ColonelAdama]

Horseshit.

The majority of "manual drivers" have no clue what they're doing. Sure they can slam it into gear, but being a driver who can competently finesse a clutch is something different. I'm on a stage 2 OTS and the clutch has zero issues now after around 10,000km. Folks these days just don't know how to drive an MT properly.. or abuse the car, then blame the clutch while they're holding the can.

I strongly suspect the majority of clutch issues under 500hp/550 odd torque are likely user error.

I am over 700nm torque (520+ft lb) e50 tuned and not a hint of clutch slip. I dont launch the car or power shift (most NLS if i need to). I don't lug it either. At 7k miles, most of them tuned.

I do this because I learned my lesson on my GTI a decade ago. I used to lug it all the time, be rough on the clutch, then the moment I tuned it, it was slipping like a mf. Bryan is 100% right about VW clutches lol...

Of course the supra clutch will go at some point, but yes, driving habits do matter!

 

[BMWAF]

I am over 700nm torque (520+ft lb) e50 tuned and not a hint of clutch slip. I dont launch the car or power shift (most NLS if i need to). I don't lug it either. At 7k miles, most of them tuned.

I do this because I learned my lesson on my GTI a decade ago. I used to lug it all the time, be rough on the clutch, then the moment I tuned it, it was slipping like a mf. Bryan is 100% right about VW clutches lol...

Of course the supra clutch will go at some point, but yes, driving habits do matter!

I just get sick of people constantly blaming clutches but never once raise their hand and say, you know what, maybe my driving style or understanding is at fault. You know what they say about bad tradesmen and their tools..

I'm not sure if it was here or on zuckerbook, but some guy said manual driving was so easy, he taught his son to drive a manual in ten minutes. I guarantee you that guy (and his son) are going to go through a clutch in no time. As much as the autoboys don't want to here it, driving a manual properly is a skill and mastering it isn't just a case of pushing an extra pedal in from time to time.

 

[lucky phil]

Going with their #'s, let's say 350 - 470 WHP, it's ~ 35% bump.

From what I've seen a good stock manual Supra will make about 390hp at the wheels so that's around 20% on 470hp. I wouldn't want to go too far down the precise numbers road though Dynos being what they are. A torque figure would be nice but I'm guessing comfortably under 500ft/lbs
Phil

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