IAT decrease with Versus heat shield

[suicidaleggroll]

The turbo is pulling in outside air. How is it holding heat unless you are sucking in heated air????

The exhaust turbine?

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[Rocksandblues]

The turbo is pulling in outside air. How is it holding heat unless you are sucking in heated air????

The shield holds in the radiant heat so it does NOT get sucked back in. It is the actually turbo housing itself that is hotter.

This is why i am not making any claims or presenting anything other than MY observations.

 

[zrk]

The turbo is pulling in outside air. How is it holding heat unless you are sucking in heated air????

I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, so at the risk of sounding like a dick, I'll go ahead. Turbo's get hot right, they're dealing with exhaust which is already high temperature and compressing air, which is also hot.

A heat shield by definition protects everything on the outside of it partially by absorbing the heat generated by whatever is hot (in this case a turbo) and partially by deflecting heat. The same amount of heat is produced and has to go -somewhere-. Some absorbed, some deflected. Since the heat shield is more or less enclosed the heat stays closer to the turbo, the manifold, and the block. Newton has a law about this.

While the temps on the 'cold' side of the shield will be reduced, the temperatures on the 'hot' side of the shield will be increased as well as any other components inside the shield (manifolds, exhaust, head/block). It seemed @Rocksandblues was mentioning this. It's definitely possible to cause a different failure here if the heat gets to a level that is out of tolerance for the turbo/head/gaskets/pre-cat o2 sensor, etc. Anything close. In their case, it appears to be increase burbles because of increased detonation inside of the exhaust due to an increase in heat energy.

As with any performance mod, it's pay-to-play. If you change anything, you should expect it to cause some sort of failure somewhere and be prepared to fix that.

 

[FlynnZero]

I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, so at the risk of sounding like a dick, I'll go ahead. Turbo's get hot right, they're dealing with exhaust which is already high temperature and compressing air, which is also hot.

A heat shield by definition protects everything on the outside of it partially by absorbing the heat generated by whatever is hot (in this case a turbo) and partially by deflecting heat. The same amount of heat is produced and has to go -somewhere-. Some absorbed, some deflected. Since the heat shield is more or less enclosed the heat stays closer to the turbo, the manifold, and the block. Newton has a law about this.

While the temps on the 'cold' side of the shield will be reduced, the temperatures on the 'hot' side of the shield will be increased as well as any other components inside the shield (manifolds, exhaust, head/block). It seemed @Rocksandblues was mentioning this. It's definitely possible to cause a different failure here if the heat gets to a level that is out of tolerance for the turbo/head/gaskets/pre-cat o2 sensor, etc. Anything close. In their case, it appears to be increase burbles because of increased detonation inside of the exhaust due to an increase in heat energy.

As with any performance mod, it's pay-to-play. If you change anything, you should expect it to cause some sort of failure somewhere and be prepared to fix that.

Soooooo......at the risk of sound like a, well what you said, here is a description of the whole system. Not sure why you had to go down that path....but here we go. And while your attempted instruction on the laws of thermodynamics is kind, if it was a huge concern, Toyota would have ensured air flow across the turbocharger itself and not covered every square inch of the Supra with shields and plates creating a hot box. Adding this plate IMO does not change the thermodynamics here since there is zero air flow in that space any way. But, by all means, come with data and I will change my mind. In god we trust, all others bring data.

THE turbocharger is made up of two main sections: the turbine and the compressor. The turbine consists of the turbine wheel and the turbine housing. It is the job of the turbine housing to guide the exhaust gas into the turbine wheel. The energy from the exhaust gas turns the turbine wheel, and the gas then exits the turbine housing through an exhaust outlet area.

The compressor also consists of two parts: the compressor wheel and the compressor housing. The compressor’s mode of action is opposite that of the turbine. The compressor wheel is attached to the turbine by a forged steel shaft (not 100% sure what the BMW shaft is), and as the turbine turns the compressor wheel, the high-velocity spinning draws in air (typically cooler air) and compresses it. The compressor housing then converts the high-velocity, low-pressure air stream into a high-pressure, low-velocity air stream through a process called diffusion. The compressed air is pushed into the engine, allowing the engine to burn more fuel to produce more power.

Appreciate the attempted lessons and misdirected sarcasm. There is always a few rotten apples in the bushel (zrk and Rocksand blues). But, your pay to play comment is warranted. Cheers.

 

[zrk]

Soooooo......at the risk of sound like a, well what you said, here is a description of the whole system. Not sure why you had to go down that path....but here we go. And while your attempted instruction on the laws of thermodynamics is kind, if it was a huge concern, Toyota would have ensured air flow across the turbocharger itself and not covered every square inch of the Supra with shields and plates creating a hot box. Adding this plate IMO does not change the thermodynamics here since there is zero air flow in that space any way. But, by all means, come with data and I will change my mind. In god we trust, all others bring data.

THE turbocharger is made up of two main sections: the turbine and the compressor. The turbine consists of the turbine wheel and the turbine housing. It is the job of the turbine housing to guide the exhaust gas into the turbine wheel. The energy from the exhaust gas turns the turbine wheel, and the gas then exits the turbine housing through an exhaust outlet area.

The compressor also consists of two parts: the compressor wheel and the compressor housing. The compressor’s mode of action is opposite that of the turbine. The compressor wheel is attached to the turbine by a forged steel shaft (not 100% sure what the BMW shaft is), and as the turbine turns the compressor wheel, the high-velocity spinning draws in air (typically cooler air) and compresses it. The compressor housing then converts the high-velocity, low-pressure air stream into a high-pressure, low-velocity air stream through a process called diffusion. The compressed air is pushed into the engine, allowing the engine to burn more fuel to produce more power.

Appreciate the attempted lessons and misdirected sarcasm. There is always a few rotten apples in the bushel (zrk and Rocksand blues). But, your pay to play comment is warranted. Cheers.

Oh yeah, you're totally right about how the turbo works, I don't think there was any confusion there. The turbo itself generates heat, I'm was not talking about the airflow through the turbo - I didn't mean to come off that way.

But the heat that was near the intake pre-heat shield is now somewhere. That's where Newton's law comes into play. That heat is now housed -around- the turbo. It's not necessarily heating the cold air inside the cold side of the turbo.

Again, I'm not talking anywhere, nor did I say anything about the heat shield being a negative for IATs, I have the Verus heat shield and have seen IATs fall significantly since installing it. I'm purely talking about where that heat is now. It's somewhere and that somewhere is 1) dissipated in the shield itself, and 2) between the turbo and the shield, and through the back opening. It doesn't just go away. This ambient heat will heat the manifold and downpipe hotter than it was without any heat shield.

I think we're talking about very different things here.

Adding this plate IMO does not change the thermodynamics

Of course, it does, that's what the datasheet says, and what it says on the tin. It takes heat that was somewhere and moves it somewhere else, that's a change in thermodynamics. Fluid thermodynamics quite possibly remain unchanged to a point where it matters, because of the lack of airflow in that area, as you mentioned.

I really wasn't trying to sound like a dick, I honestly didn't know where you stood on things. I don't know you from Adam, internet stranger.

 

[Rocksandblues]

Soooooo......at the risk of sound like a,

Appreciate the attempted lessons and misdirected sarcasm. There is always a few rotten apples in the bushel (zrk and Rocksand blues). But, your pay to play comment is warranted. Cheers.

LOL, why am i being labeled a "rotten apple" ?

I understand physics and data, i only offered an interesting observation. Not making any claims or facts.

I CAN verify with data that Versus data is really accurate so far with their products.

Edit and PS
i DO have added airflow to that area on purpose

 

[FlynnZero]

Oh yeah, you're totally right about how the turbo works, I don't think there was any confusion there. The turbo itself generates heat, I'm was not talking about the airflow through the turbo - I didn't mean to come off that way.

But the heat that was near the intake pre-heat shield is now somewhere. That's where Newton's law comes into play. That heat is now housed -around- the turbo. It's not necessarily heating the cold air inside the cold side of the turbo.

Again, I'm not talking anywhere, nor did I say anything about the heat shield being a negative for IATs, I have the Verus heat shield and have seen IATs fall significantly since installing it. I'm purely talking about where that heat is now. It's somewhere and that somewhere is 1) dissipated in the shield itself, and 2) between the turbo and the shield, and through the back opening. It doesn't just go away. This ambient heat will heat the manifold and downpipe hotter than it was without any heat shield.

I think we're talking about very different things here.



Of course, it does, that's what the datasheet says, and what it says on the tin. It takes heat that was somewhere and moves it somewhere else, that's a change in thermodynamics. Fluid thermodynamics quite possibly remain unchanged to a point where it matters, because of the lack of airflow in that area, as you mentioned.

I really wasn't trying to sound like a dick, I honestly didn't know where you stood on things. I don't know you from Adam, internet stranger.

One other thing to note, the Verus shield is also most likely acting like a heat sink and transferring heat back into the block. The little puny heat shield that Toyota designed probably doing the same.

 

[FlynnZero]

The exhaust turbine?

turbocharger=compressor+turbine

 

[Jackyl tm]

The real question is when will they have the 6 port version in stock. Can't even overnight parts from Japan anymore.

I ordered mine Sunday night, shipped out first thing Monday morning. I received it on Wednesday morning. Will be installing this weekend hopefully!

 

[suicidaleggroll]

turbocharger=compressor+turbine

Yes. You asked how is the turbo holding heat, it's holding heat on the exhaust side. The 1000 degree exhaust housing isn't able to radiate as much heat away when the heat shield is in place, so it runs even hotter.

I had a GT3076 on my STi, it was open to the world and heating up the engine bay, so at one point I decided to put a blanket on it. As soon as I did, the coolant lines to the turbo started cracking. I'd replace them, and a week later they'd crack and leak again. I pulled the blanket off and the problem stopped. The blanket was causing the exhaust housing to run so much hotter that it was destroying the rubber coolant lines that fed the turbo. The Verus heat shield will do the same thing (not the coolant line cracking thing, just the turbo running hotter thing), but to a much more limited extent.

This is a good thing for performance. Keeping heat in the turbo keeps it out of the rest of the engine bay, including the intake, which lowers IATs. The hotter exhaust housing also improves spool and power.

 

[woahken]

I have the 6 port shield. works as advertised. My IAT are running about 5 deg cooler across the board.

I will say holding more heat IN the turbo has had some interesting side effects.

I'm curious, how effective is ~5 deg cooler IAT?

 

[FlynnZero]

Yes. You asked how is the turbo holding heat, it's holding heat on the exhaust side. The 1000 degree exhaust housing isn't able to radiate as much heat away when the heat shield is in place, so it runs even hotter.

I had a GT3076 on my STi, it was open to the world and heating up the engine bay, so at one point I decided to put a blanket on it. As soon as I did, the coolant lines to the turbo started cracking. I'd replace them, and a week later they'd crack and leak again. I pulled the blanket off and the problem stopped. The blanket was causing the exhaust housing to run so much hotter that it was destroying the rubber coolant lines that fed the turbo. The Verus heat shield will do the same thing (not the coolant line cracking thing, just the turbo running hotter thing), but to a much more limited extent.

This is a good thing for performance. Keeping heat in the turbo keeps it out of the rest of the engine bay, including the intake, which lowers IATs. The hotter exhaust housing also improves spool and power.

No doubt you may be correct, however there is literally no air movement in that space now, so the heat is not dissipating with our without the shield. But again, need data to support that theory and no one is having issues with the shield. So there is that.

 

[Rocksandblues]

I'm curious, how effective is ~5 deg cooler IAT?

Believe me every bit helps on the track. For those that don’t track I don’t see the need. Superfluous

I am sure next season I will adding the upgraded radiators too.

 

[suicidaleggroll]

No doubt you may be correct, however there is literally no air movement in that space now, so the heat is not dissipating with our without the shield. But again, need data to support that theory and no one is having issues with the shield. So there is that.

The exhaust housing of the turbo is 1000 degrees hotter than anything around it. Radiation and natural convection will transfer plenty of heat, the heat shield will interrupt both of them.

 

[FlynnZero]

The exhaust housing of the turbo is 1000 degrees hotter than anything around it. Radiation and natural convection will transfer plenty of heat, the heat shield will interrupt both of them.

In god we trust, all others bring data. We will wait.

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