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Most revealing 2020 Supra prototype spy pics yet, Spotted 3/19/18!

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Jeff Lange

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Based on my calculations, the V35A-FTS is likely about the same weight or possibly slightly heavier than the 2UR-GSE.

Just since I was curious to see whether or not swapping out the V8 in an LC to a TT 6 would actually save weight or not... likely not.

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PerformanceSound

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Not a Toyota-employed engineer, just a regular one who's been in plenty of Toyota manufacturing facilities and had the pleasure of being around a lot of LCs. No way they could get that thing down to 3600 in a production car man. And again dude, you gotta drive one. It is not and could not be a Supra, it's a completely different car designed from the ground up with totally different intentions.
Toyota engineers managed to make a V10 the size of a V8 and the weight of a V6 in the LFA. They are very capable of making a V6 as light as a 4 cylinder....if they wanted to. Sure, the Supra wouldn't have been an LFA....but the whole point of the LFA was an exercise in engineering....we all know this. The LFA was an exercise to show off the latest in technology; engineering, material, electronics, engines, etc... I have driven the LC (as a matter of fact a white one at a dealer in Glenview) and let me tell you, it feels very much like a high-end sports car and could be a great platform for a Supra. Sure the suspension is softer, the steering is numb and artificial, and the overall ride is Lexus smooth and quiet...but that is what you pay for in a Lexus...all the creature comforts. Strip all the luxury and complicated suspension bits, put in a lighter six cylinder, and give it a basic interior with simple technology and yes it can be in the 3600lb range.
 

SupraFiend

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As we've established, the new turbo v6 is at best the same weight as the NA v8. We've also established the curb weight differences between Soarer's and mk4 Supras, and there is no 600lbs hiding in there. But what you are really not getting, which is odd since you've driven one, is the pure amount of mass difference between the two cars...

98 Supra 6spd
Length 177.8 Inches
Width 71.3 Inches
Height 49.8 Inches
Wheelbase 100.4 Inches
Curb weight (Turbo) 3,417 lbs

LC500 non hybrid
Length : 187.4 in
Width : 75.6 in
Height : 53.0 in
Wheelbase : 113.0 in
Curb weight: 4280lbs

The wheelbase is over a foot longer! I was completely floored how big these things are when I first saw one in person. This is a completely different scale of car, its like comparing 1 ton trucks to half tons, everything is built on this car for that curb weight. It doesn't share a platform with the IS or RC300, it shares some chassis design, susp and drivetrain components with the LS. This is not a platform you base a car the size of the mk4 on. And keep in mind, the mk4 was a very heavy car for its size. Its weight is all in its iron block i6, double turbos, beefy 6 speed tranny and LS400 derived rear differential, the non turbo car was around 300lbs lighter. If they built the new supra off this platform, we'd have a porker on par with today's Mustang, Challenger and Camaro, nobody wants that.
 

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As we've established, the new turbo v6 is at best the same weight as the NA v8. We've also established the curb weight differences between Soarer's and mk4 Supras, and there is no 600lbs hiding in there. But what you are really not getting, which is odd since you've driven one, is the pure amount of mass difference between the two cars...

98 Supra 6spd
Length 177.8 Inches
Width 71.3 Inches
Height 49.8 Inches
Wheelbase 100.4 Inches
Curb weight (Turbo) 3,417 lbs

LC500 non hybrid
Length : 187.4 in
Width : 75.6 in
Height : 53.0 in
Wheelbase : 113.0 in
Curb weight: 4280lbs

The wheelbase is over a foot longer! I was completely floored how big these things are when I first saw one in person. This is a completely different scale of car, its like comparing 1 ton trucks to half tons, everything is built on this car for that curb weight. It doesn't share a platform with the IS or RC300, it shares some chassis design, susp and drivetrain components with the LS. This is not a platform you base a car the size of the mk4 on. And keep in mind, the mk4 was a very heavy car for its size. Its weight is all in its iron block i6, double turbos, beefy 6 speed tranny and LS400 derived rear differential, the non turbo car was around 300lbs lighter. If they built the new supra off this platform, we'd have a porker on par with today's Mustang, Challenger and Camaro, nobody wants that.
There is nothing wrong with having a 3600-3800lb car, absolutely nothing wrong with that. However, a suitable engine should obviously be considered. A 450hp+ version of the LS500 V6TT is very possible and could propel the LC’s reworked chassis to some pretty impressive numbers. Again, im not saying they need to use all the Lexus “goodies” which happen to make up a substantial portion of the LC’s weight....im saying they could have engineered the LC’s platform in a more basic form to accommodate the Supra’s requirements. Lexus cars (all Lexus cars) weight alot because of their super high quality interiors and parts. If alot of that fluff was replaced with “cheaper” maybe lighter materials, they can get away with a mid 3000lb (3600-3800lb) car. Carbon fiber; hood, roof, trunk, fenders, fancy seats, and fancy trim alone would shave off a few hundred pounds easily. What’s wrong with a 450hp+ 3600lb car nowadays? I don’t see a problem with a 3500lb 94’ Supra Turbo with 320HP having a problem selling on the used market today. Remember, this would be a pure sports car, not a luxury GT! They did it with the SC and Supra back in the 90’s....they can do it again now!
 
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SupraFiend

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If they based it off the RC300\350 that could certainly work. Now that is a chassis about the right size and duty level for a Supra. The RC200t is 3750lbs, atrocious, but like you say, if you strip out the Lexus grade interior and amenities you could get down to something sane. But not the LC, just too damn big, no hope for it.

And yeah, I totally disagree on making a Supra in the 3600-3800lb range. And so did Toyota. That was the range of the mk3 Turbo, and Toyota realized they went too far and dialed it back big time for the mk4. Supras aren't supposed to be GTs or muscle cars. Just because you can make a tank handle, doesn't mean you should. Today's muscle cars are certainly pulling impressive lap times, but there's more to life then lap times. Go take a spin in a Miata and see how fun that is. That is the single best thing about the new Supra sharing a platform with the Beemer Z4, is how much smaller and lighter its going to be now. A Supra should be engineered more like a Corvette or the LFA, not a muscle car. Aiming for the low 3000s will net a car that is very light on its feet, reasonably tossable, fast without having to be grossly over built, and will not break the bank if you track it frequently.
 

MA617M

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Rc chassis is also insanely heavy - due to extra material for torsional stiffness

also can't compare chassis of old due to sheer number of safety features that are mandatory in new cars. these features will never be compromised on and so should be considered as a part of base chassis mass.

in an era where hot hatches are 1500kg + (RS3, A45 et al.)

A sub-1400kg Supra is fantastic. If sharing the Z4 platform has allowed Toyota to pour more funds into lightweight materials, then fantastic.

Anyone have any idea what the new Z4 weighs? Will be interesting given the A90 is rumoured to be 1250-1350kg....
 

vb22

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The RC is just a chop and mix of old platforms. They aren't going to be using it for anything else. Besides, they are switching to a global platform. All future RWD Lexus and some premium Toyotas will go to the GA-L platform.
 

Supra93

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mkivalex

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Albon, are you a Toyota Engineer by chance?....or a chassis expert working for Lotus? I ask, because how can you definitively say that the LC platform could not come in at mid 3000lbs utilizing none of the heavy; Lexus interiors, Lexus V8, Lexus wheels, Lexus sound deadening, etc...??? Your saying the LC coming in at 4200lbs could not be made 3600lbs by Toyota with a six cylinder, cheaper interior, and more race-inspired components (carbon-fiber driveshaft, lighter wheels, lighter sound deadening, and simpler suspension, etc...than what the LC has? 600lbs can easily be reduced from the LC to make a lighter (cheaper) Supra.

I am not saying they should have shared every component and badged it a Supra (like they did with the SC)....but if Toyota wanted to, they could have made the LC platform in the mid 3000lbs and used it for the Supra. I am still betting Toyota chased the whole “inline six” idea too far and had no other choice than to use a BMW chassis. Otherwise, we may very well have seen a LC/Supra platform.

Btw, ever see the video where a Toyota engineer/driver Sato San is driving the LC and “mistakenly” calls it a Supra??? Yeah, im sure it was a real “mistake.” Here, fast forward to 5:04. Enjoy!

I don't think its as easy as you think to just shed 600 or so pounds without using a bunch of exotic materials. A lot of things that are heavy on the car can't be changed, sure there are the Lexus add on's but with all that is required in a car these days, and especially what Toyota puts standard on any vehicle. I highly doubt you can take off those sort of numbers. 600 is a lot of weight, especially when you are trying to make the car cheaper, not more expensive (Than the LC).

Like Guff said, if you have ever seen an LC in person you will understand, its way too big in every way. Its just not the right platform for the Supra.
 

Supra93

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That looks good! I’m definitely not digging the side vents though....at least that style of side vents.
Thanks, yeah I kind of feel the same way, but it does look a little better without the lines. I'm thinking once the car comes out someone should take it to the body shop and have them bondo the door with the fake panel, and a light spray to blend everything together.

nolinesvents.webp
 

vb22

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That looks good! I’m definitely not digging the side vents though....at least that style of side vents.
X2

Thanks, yeah I kind of feel the same way, but it does look a little better without the lines. I'm thinking once the car comes out someone should take it to the body shop and have them bondo the door, the fake panel and a light spray to blend everything together.

nolinesvents.webp
The door looks so much better as one whole piece. Toyota has found a way to make fake vents look even more cheesier. :lol:
 
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