Parking Brake unexpected Release (MT)

[BMWAF]

Sorry disagree. Since day 1 I've always parked a manual in gear, first gear. Flat ground, sloping ground, in the street or in the garage always in gear. Why would you not? Why would you rely on 1 system only to make sure the car stays where it's put? It's like people that don't use the handbrake on an auto and rely on the Park position.
When we park aircraft we set the park brake and chock the wheels, same principle, never rely on a single system for safety. It's a no brainer really.
Same as start the car and then do what....fill out your tax return? After I start the car I drive the car and if I'm not driving the car and messing about with something else such as the nav system which I tend not to do in most cases my foot is on the brake. If the engine is running and I'm not moving then my foot is on the brake. I never get out of a running car and trust the handbrake even moving my cars around. If I'm not in the car the engine is off and the PB is set. If I'm working on the car and I need the engine running then the car is in neutral the park brake is set and the wheels are chocked. When I get in the drivers seat and start the car I'm there to drive it not go on social media or do my hair or pick my nose or check my look in the mirror. Drive, I'm there to drive.
Phil

20 years of driving tells me what I am doing works fine. The only real caveat is that I have never owned a car with an e-brake. Not looking forward to this.

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[lucky phil]

20 years of driving tells me what I am doing works fine. The only real caveat is that I have never owned a car with an e-brake. Not looking forward to this.

Never to late to learn and you know people can be lucky for years until they aren't. My background is in aviation and engineering and it's just second nature in that world to not rely on one system of safety only especially when there are two readily and easily available. Same as aviation engineering where failsafe structures are the norm. In other words no singular load paths, always design critical structures and systems with multiple load paths and redundancies so a single failure doesn't result in a bad situation.
How silly would you feel if your manual car rolled away when unattended and simply having it parked in gear would have averted the catastrophe.

Phil

 

[FLtrackdays]

Never to late to learn and you know people can be lucky for years until they aren't. My background is in aviation and engineering and it's just second nature in that world to not rely on one system of safety only especially when there are two readily and easily available. Same as aviation engineering where failsafe structures are the norm. In other words no singular load paths, always design critical structures and systems with multiple load paths and redundancies so a single failure doesn't result in a bad situation.
How silly would you feel if your manual car rolled away when unattended and simply having it parked in gear would have averted the catastrophe.

Phil

What if someone lives/parks on a steep hill Phil (rhyme not intended)? Would that be too much on the gear. I’m in Flat Florida. So you always put the damn thing in gear and pull the E brake. Thanks!

Mark

(and I didn’t realize it was such a problem until I saw @Spart ’s video - wow)

 

[lucky phil]

What if someone lives/parks on a steep hill Phil (rhyme not intended)? Would that be too much on the gear. I’m in Flat Florida. So you always put the damn thing in gear and pull the E brake. Thanks!

Mark

(and I didn’t realize it was such a problem until I saw @Spart ’s video - wow)

Not even remotely too much on the gear. Have you ever bump started a car? Probably not I'd guess too young, lol. Push the car along to downhill slope jump in clutch in 2nd gear and pop the clutch and get it running. Last thing you need to worry about is the gears.
Same as bump starting my race bike, load on the gearbox is zero issue. I'm having a hard time believing people DON'T park a manual in gear.

Phil

 

[VeroBlue]

This had happened to me on a couple of occasions, too. For me when I park it’s on a flat surface and in first gear. Where this concern is annoying: I parked recently while my wife ran in to grab some quick groceries and I stayed in the car so I to listen to music with a/c on, etc. and I parked, set the parking brake and had it in neutral (for obvious reasons) released the foot brake and like a minute later found my car rolling backward out of the space. It’s happened on a few occasions and I am paying extra attention to see if there is a specific scenario that duplicates the concern

on another note, my MT car also sometimes unlocks itself. To explain further:

I lock and have the setting where side mirrors fold in. I go inside and come outside bc I notice on my home’s cameras my side mirrors out. I come outside to find my car is locked. I also have the setting for auto locking and the car will be locked but the mirrors are out again. I can only guess the car unlocks itself and then when the key isn’t present for whatever predetermined or programmed time it is then it relocks. Super annoying. And it may be my fault because I think I adjusted the auto lock feature timing through Bimmercode a while ago. Ugh, I digress

 

[BMWAF]

Never to late to learn and you know people can be lucky for years until they aren't. My background is in aviation and engineering and it's just second nature in that world to not rely on one system of safety only especially when there are two readily and easily available. Same as aviation engineering where failsafe structures are the norm. In other words no singular load paths, always design critical structures and systems with multiple load paths and redundancies so a single failure doesn't result in a bad situation.
How silly would you feel if your manual car rolled away when unattended and simply having it parked in gear would have averted the catastrophe.

Phil

Again. 20 years is a long time. Also, while I understand and respect an aviator's need for redundancy, I do not think it translates to a car - particularly when parked on a flat surface. I'm sure a rocket scientist would tell us triple or quadruple redundancy is best because.. space.

 

[zrk]

Not even remotely too much on the gear. Have you ever bump started a car? Probably not I'd guess too young, lol. Push the car along to downhill slope jump in clutch in 2nd gear and pop the clutch and get it running. Last thing you need to worry about is the gears.
Same as bump starting my race bike, load on the gearbox is zero issue. I'm having a hard time believing people DON'T park a manual in gear.

Phil

Same. I cannot imagine not leaving a manual transmission car in gear. It's beyond bizarre to me.

 

[lucky phil]

Same. I cannot imagine not leaving a manual transmission car in gear. It's beyond bizarre to me.

Yea same as the neutral light on a motorcycle. I've been riding bikes since I was a 10 year old and currently have 5 road and track bikes. Lesson learned early on, never trust the "neutral" light. Even in the 21st century with CAN bus technology never trust it. The times I've read reports of even late model bikes where it lies are amazing. My neighbour started his bike on the side stand neutral light on left it idling while he stood next to it and put his helmet on and the transmission poped into gear and launched the thing forward off the stand and on it's side. These extra precautionary practices only have to save you once in your life to be worth the effort.
Belt and braces certainly helped avoid "incidents" in my aviation career.

Phil

 

[lucky phil]

This had happened to me on a couple of occasions, too. For me when I park it’s on a flat surface and in first gear. Where this concern is annoying: I parked recently while my wife ran in to grab some quick groceries and I stayed in the car so I to listen to music with a/c on, etc. and I parked, set the parking brake and had it in neutral (for obvious reasons) released the foot brake and like a minute later found my car rolling backward out of the space. It’s happened on a few occasions and I am paying extra attention to see if there is a specific scenario that duplicates the concern

on another note, my MT car also sometimes unlocks itself. To explain further:

I lock and have the setting where side mirrors fold in. I go inside and come outside bc I notice on my home’s cameras my side mirrors out. I come outside to find my car is locked. I also have the setting for auto locking and the car will be locked but the mirrors are out again. I can only guess the car unlocks itself and then when the key isn’t present for whatever predetermined or programmed time it is then it relocks. Super annoying. And it may be my fault because I think I adjusted the auto lock feature timing through Bimmercode a while ago. Ugh, I digress

So did you pull up select neutral keep the clutch pedal depressed set the park brake with your foot on the brake then release the clutch pedal? Is that the scenario?

Phil

 

[Spart]

20 years of driving tells me what I am doing works fine. The only real caveat is that I have never owned a car with an e-brake. Not looking forward to this.

We'll just take a look at all the owner's manuals again:

You mean to tell me that Chevrolet, BMW, Toyota, Ford, and Honda are ALL wrong?

You should contact them and let them know to put out corrections to their owner's manuals ASAP, this is such a disaster.

 

[VeroBlue]

So did you pull up select neutral keep the clutch pedal depressed set the park brake with your foot on the brake then release the clutch pedal? Is that the scenario?

Phil

hey Phil. That could be it. I’ll try and duplicate that tomorrow (storming here now)

 

[zrk]

We'll just take a look at all the owner's manuals again:

You mean to tell me that Chevrolet, BMW, Toyota, Ford, and Honda are ALL wrong?

You should contact them and let them know to put out corrections to their owner's manuals ASAP, this is such a disaster.

Are you talking to me?

If you are, you should work on your reading comprehension.

 

[Spart]

Are you talking to me?

If you are, you should work on your reading comprehension.

I missed the "not", sorry my man.

 

[BMWAF]

We'll just take a look at all the owner's manuals again:

You mean to tell me that Chevrolet, BMW, Toyota, Ford, and Honda are ALL wrong?

You should contact them and let them know to put out corrections to their owner's manuals ASAP, this is such a disaster.

Maybe reading comprehension has dropped sharply over there because it certainly looks to me like Toyota 100% agrees with me. I've circled the offending statement for you.

But keep taking screenshots of manuals without you know.. actually, reading for understanding.

 

[barasoap]

Maybe reading comprehension has dropped sharply over there because it certainly looks to me like Toyota 100% agrees with me. I've circled the offending statement for you.

But keep taking screenshots of manuals without you know.. actually, reading for understanding.

idk where the image in that graphic came from but on page 27 in the manual here, it says set 1st or reverse.

https://assets.sia.toyota.com/publications/en/om-s/OM9A457U/pdf/OM9A457U.pdf

It is pretty funny to come back every once in a while and see you still arguing the same thing though. Good for you.

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