Reviews are in for 2020 Supra MKV preproduction car

[justbake]

It looks like they just got to sample the EU version = no care...

Hopefully they review the car in the US soon where the 382 hp version is road legal

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[johnny_10196]

Motor is super late on their review.

https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/2019-toyota-supra-prototype-performance-review

2019 Toyota A90 Supra prototype performance review
By Matt Prior, 04 Nov 2018 Reviews

The turbo-six, rear-drive Supra proves the theory that good things come to those who wait

Well This is the new Toyota Supra. What can I tell you? More like: what am I still unable to tell you?

It’s still dazzle-camouflaged outside. Inside it’s carpeted like someone’s skinned Skippy and draped him over the dashboard. It’s still eight months away from production and therefore still in prototype form. I’m accompanied by a minder whenever I go near it. And they’ll barely tell me a single flipping specification.

They insist the numbers don’t matter. (Which begs the question: why not just tell us, if they’re so unimportant?) What only matters at the moment, they say, is the way it drives, the way it makes you feel. And this, I’m thrilled to report, I can tell you.

I drove it, quite a lot and quite fast by the standards of events that only have four prototype cars available. It’s yet another painful plink in the agonising drip-feed of Supra information that, let’s not forget, began in 2012 when BMW and Toyota announced they were going to work together. Does Toyota really need seven years to build a car?

Only this much is confirmed of what we know: the Supra has a lower centre of gravity than an 86, despite having a 3.0-litre straight-six engine, driving the rear wheels through an eight-speed automatic gearbox (BMW/ZF respectively); while a BMW M Active limited-slip differential sits at the back axle. As with BMW’s Z4, the weight distribution will be 50:50.

I still can’t tell you the exact power, but 250kW sounds about right, 475Nm too, and the kerbweight is likely 1500kg. The body rigidity, despite being a blend of steel and aluminium, is as stiff as a Lexus LFA’s carbon one. The wheelbase is around 2440mm and the tracks approximately 1600mm.

Toyota has taken a delicate path with the Supra; a road car that gives more when you ask for more and where an A110 or M2 Competition might give you more all the time, that’s no bad thing. In terms of daily maturity it’s closest, then, to a 718 Cayman. Curious. A few years ago a Cayman would have been seen as unbeatable. Now everybody wants a crack at it.

On this showing, Toyota is getting as close as anyone.
These, too, firm up via the sport button, as does the steering weight, though in regular daily driving there’s no need: the underlying compliance is welcome, but there’s no sense that the body weight is getting away from it.

The Supra feels like a stable, well-rounded sports coupe. Its engineers say they did 90 per cent of its development work on the road, and I think it shows. In town, on the motorway, it’s mature in a way that, say, a BMW M2 Competition or Alpine A110, perhaps even a Cayman, are not.

It’s only when you get onto a country road, then, that you start to push the boundaries of the standard suspension setting’s limits. The steering is smooth, progressive, sharper off of straight-ahead than some front-engined coupes. Presumably it is to give an extra sense of agility that, compared to a 718, the Supra simply can’t have.
There will be faster and, I suspect, slower versions of this car later, to make the sums add up for Toyota, so the slow release of info will go on even after it goes into production in May. You’ll see the final car, shorn of disguise, at Detroit motor show time in January.

Another thing to add to what we know: it’s good to drive.

Our route is a two-hour loop from the outskirts of Madrid, so is partly in the city, partly on the motorway, partly on country roads, and then – goody gumdrops – arrives at a racetrack.

Because I’m sharing the drive with a colleague from another magazine, even though I’m contractually obliged to pretend there is no such thing, and because there’s always a minder in the Supra, sometimes one of us is following in an 86 while the other drives the Supra, which I mention for reasons I’ll come back to.

First, then, getting into the Supra. Despite the drapery inside you can sense it has is a BMW-centric interior. The switchgear is BMW, the driving position is long and straight, the gearstick is BMW’s. Does that matter? I doubt it.

The iDrive multimedia system is better than Toyota’s alternative and there’ll surely be a Toyota face on that anyway, as there is on the instrument binnacle, while the steering wheel is thinner of rim than BMW uses, and round. Praise be on both of those counts.

You sit low, peering through a letterbox windscreen, with a high window line and the curved bonnet spearing off into the distance. No idea whether it is (it probably is), but it immediately feels bigger than, say, a Porsche 718 Cayman, whose corners are easier to place, owing to the visibility. You are aware, at once, where the Supra’s engine is.

It’s a refined engine and drivetrain, though. If there’s work to still be done on the calibration, it’d be news to me. A six is always smooth, but a BMW six, turbocharged here, is incredibly so.

Step-off is almost imperceptible and the Supra, even in standard drive mode, is unencumbered by the response modern autos sometimes give, where they feel like they’re trying to lug things out from too low revs. The stop-start system wasn’t functioning, which probably helps, mind.

Push a sport button and the throttle and gearbox response sharpens, but there are gearshift paddles, so if you want a quicker response, it’s probably more rewarding to take control yourself. There’s no word on a manual ’box yet; but Toyota would like one.

The Supra rides well, too, better than a BMW M4 while on the same size tyres: bespoke Michelin Pilot Super Sport rubber of 255/35 R19 at the front and 275/35 R19 at the rear. Passive dampers will be standard, but adaptive dampers were fitted to the cars we tried.

Body roll builds progressively, but this is where you want the dampers firmed. Without them like that, as you get back on the throttle and the differential begins to worry about acceleration, you feel the body’s mass shifting in a way you don’t think you would in a Cayman.

With dampers tightened that much is alleviated, with not too much loss in compliance, and there’s a pleasing, reassuring balance. Hints of understeer on the way in, likewise oversteer on the way out, not unlike, say, an Aston Martin Vantage only a bit lighter. A BMW M2 with both more compliance and control (or an M2 Competition with more compliance).

Swapping into and following in an 86, though, you’re reminded of the advantages that minimal mass gives you. Sure, the 86’s engine is wheezy, but working it hard you can carry speed and enjoy delicate fingertip steering responses denied in the bigger car. It’s a reminder of how exceptional the 86’s chassis is; which I suspect wasn’t the objective of the exercise.

But still, there are other things a Supra can do. The engine’s extremely sweet, smooth, broadly responsive but happy revving. In Sport mode a flap opens in the exhaust and Toyota says there’s more work to do on the induction noise, probably via sound tubes off the engine – so real, rather than fake noise. But unlike a Cayman you’re happy to let it rev and sing, or sit at high revs pre-overtake.

And it’s clearly a chassis that can handle more power. Nowhere is that more evident than on a circuit where, Sport mode engaged, the Supra displays the same balance as on the road, only enhanced.

The suspension maintains good control but with serious compliance over bumps or kerbs; where those would thump through in an M2 Competition, the Supra glides across, as a Cayman might. It doesn’t rotate as willingly as a Cayman or, from my limited experience, an Alpine A110, but that’s not surprising given where the engine is.

With stability control set to ‘have a little slip’ but not ‘off’, (the minder still alongside, see), you get to feel the balance: steering that’s smooth if not laden with feel, a hint of entry understeer, a hint of exit oversteer with the knowledge that you could have a lot more if given the opportunity. Some of my favourite-handling cars – an Aston V12 Vantage S, that 86 – have the kind of balance the Supra displays, albeit usually with more rawness.

But that’s fine. It is, in this spec, 90 per cent a road car and yet still happy on a hot circuit, being pushed hard without overheating its steel discs, offering more handling balance and playfulness, more reward, the more you push it.

Toyota has taken a delicate path with the Supra; a road car that gives more when you ask for more and where an A110 or M2 Competition might give you more all the time, that’s no bad thing. In terms of daily maturity it’s closest, then, to a 718 Cayman. Curious. A few years ago a Cayman would have been seen as unbeatable. Now everybody wants a crack at it.

On this showing, Toyota is getting as close as anyone.

FAST FACTS
2019 Toyota Supra prototype

BODY: 2-door, 2-seat coupe
DRIVE: rear-wheel
ENGINE: 2998cc inline-6, DOHC, 24v, turbo
POWER: 250kW (estimate)
TORQUE: 475Nm (estimate)
WEIGHT: 1500kg (estimate)
TRANSMISSION: 8-speed automatic
WHEELBASE: 2440mm (estimate)
TYRES: Michelin Pilot Super Sport, 255/35 R19 (f); 275/35 R19 (r)

RATING: 4.5 out of 5 stars

Five reasons the B58 is the next great inline six

1 - The modular architecture with BMW’s three- and four-pot engines increases economies of scale, parts availability and value
2 - Its crankcase is stiffened and the crankshaft better balanced
3 - Its bores are plasma coated, which should strengthen the block for big power applications
4 - The turbo’s electronic wastegate helps spool times and overall throttle response
5 - The B58’s twin-scroll turbo is larger than the succeeded N55’s, increasing power while keeping good response

 

[MA617M]

Same journalist as the ones from caradvice or whatever (all the Aussie mags are pretty incestuous lõl)

 

[DevonK]

The autoguide.com review (link below) isn't in Supra93's list despite being from September, and a search turned up no reference to it in this thread. (I came across a reprint of it in today's Toronto Star Wheels section.) It is worth a read because it provides the most detailed breakdown of the Supra's handling on and off track seen to date, written by someone who seems to know what he is talking about (and is an FRS owner).

https://www.autoguide.com/manufacturer/toyota/2020-toyota-supra-first-drive-impressions

The good bits:

On the track, the Supra disappears in your hands. That’s a good thing, especially when you’re trying to figure out a new course in a limited amount of time. Along with its good visibility, the car doesn’t nag at you, forcing you to accommodate its weight or hamfisted power delivery to the rear wheels. The short wheelbase leads to an agile feel on the course, even at speed or when putting the power down. The steering is linear, which is fun and natural feeling in tight corners and when unwinding onto a straight. The chassis is wonderfully responsive, with great weight transfer. It settles down predictably under harsh acceleration and braking, meaning it’ll even be a good partner for novices on the track.

The new Supra has a surprising amount of feedback and a dual personality that is made possible by a few of those important components mentioned earlier. In it’s “normal” (or whatever it’ll be called when you start the car) mode, things are subdued and mute, as the car feels fast but not obnoxiously sharp. Press the Sport button and things change dramatically for the better.

It’s like giving the car a shot of adrenaline. The steering becomes crisp and delivers solid response and feedback. It can snap back to center fairly quickly, allowing you to get on with the next input. The chassis is active, yet planted, despite the car’s surprisingly short wheelbase. The transmission fires off proactive gearchanges on hard braking. Simply put, the Supra in this mode feels like a real sports car. It feels fresh on the track and ready to go. The only criticism can be laid at the braking system, which felt inconsistent and numb on the track, but a bit more natural on the road. The transmission is smooth and changes gears at the right time, but isn’t as quick or snappy as other sports cars, like the PDK dual clutch in many Porsches, or even the new automatic in the high-speed Corvettes.

Still, the Supra provides a feeling of precision on the road that brings the Porsche 718 models to mind. It’s quick to change direction and feels like a dancer on the road, providing good smooth rhythm, rather than needing to be micromanaged with hard prods of the pedals....

The road portion of the drive revealed much more about the car and its relative performance. Seeing and feeling how it covers ground in the real world and not during a perfectly curated track experience exhibits how the Supra will act on different road surfaces. While Spanish countryside roads are far more civilized than the roads in North America, the Supra didn’t feel nervous, harsh or jittery like other focused sports cars frequently can.

The more telling part of the road test is the Toyota 86 chase car that we were given. Because of the limited amount of prototypes and the fact that they are prototypes, which can be moody and finicky, Toyota put one driver with a guide and had journalists follow along with 86s. Full disclaimer, I love the 86, own a first model year Scion FR-S, and feel right at home in the lightweight, rear-wheel-drive sports car. I also think it’s one of the best choices in the market for enthusiasts on a budget, with a steering feel that’s among the best in the industry and a smile-inducing, flickable attitude.

Chasing this new Supra with the plucky 86 was fun… until certain situations arose. A few conditions, in particular, favored the new sports car: uphill and straight sections that made use of the Supra’s extra power, and the curvier bits that favored the Supra’s grip and advancements in chassis technology. The Supra uses Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires, which are real high-performance rubber reserved for some high-performance cars (it first debuted on the Ferrari 458 Italia).

Turn in and rotation in the Supra is far quicker and sharper than the 86, and eventually, the new model could walk away from the car, even when limited by the rules of the public roads. It felt like the many times I used to hang out with my older sister and her friends, only to be left behind just as they were about to do something really cool. Then again, it wouldn’t be fair to talk about the 86 without mentioning that it had a singular edge on the new Supra: three pedals and a manual gearbox, something we’ve yet to hear a firm confirmation on for the Supra.
​

 

[Supra93]

 

[MA617M]

Great review thank you

 

[DevonK]

That is the second review citing decent visibility (the autoguide.com review did as well). Good to hear, poor sightlines out of gunslit windows are a big negative for me, they're all too common on current sports/performance cars.

 

[AsupramkvC]

With the reviews coming in, it sounds like the Supra will be some sort of a turbo-ed 86.

 

[AsupramkvC]

Looking at the glass half-full, sharing parts with many BMWs means the MKV won't have near as much trouble finding parts in the future as the MKIV

Though many would say that the Supra will not be purely a Toyota product, we have to be thankful for this advantage of shared parts. Parts would be more accessible in the long run. But of course, discontinuation of a certain model most likely means discontinuation of manufacturing of parts after a while... unless there is a huge aftermarket support that will manufacture parts as well

 

[SupraStew85]

 

[Captain_Kirk]

https://www.autox.com/quattroruote/new-2019-toyota-supra-prototype-review-first-impressions-104887/

2019 Toyota Supra Prototype Review: First Impressions
Let’s cut to the chase – the 3.0-litre six-cylinder turbo engine is simply electrifying! A fact with which Tetsuya Tada, the father of the Toyota GT86 and the new Supra, quite readily agrees: ‘In keeping with the legacy of the Supra, we wanted to revive the same sense of excitement with the new car. And the straight-six is one of the primary reasons behind our collaboration with BMW. When we started engineering the car in 2012, only the Bavarians produced it.’ Tetsuya Tada made this confession at the Madrid circuit of Jarama, where we test-drove one of the pre-series specimens of the Supra.

Developed mostly on public roads and tested extensively at the Nürburgring, this brand-new generation of the much-loved Toyota coupe has a MacPherson strut suspension at the front and a multilink setup at the rear. The technical base of the new Supra has been derived from the new BMW Z4, including the 3.0-litre turbo engine. Toyota hasn’t revealed the power or torque figures as yet, but we’re pretty sure that they’ll be in the range of 340bhp and 500Nm, respectively. It’s silky smooth engine offers very strong power delivery and an exhilarating exhaust note. Moreover, selecting Sport mode stiffens up the suspension and adds more feel to the steering, making it quick and precise. At the same time, the exhaust note becomes more pronounced, and the ZF-derived eight speed automatic doesn’t give you any reason to get nostalgic about a manual transmission. In fact, the speed with which it shifts, especially when using paddle shifters, will fool you into believing that it’s a double-clutch automatic. It’s that good!

Assured Performance
It’s fast! There you have it. However, Toyota doesn’t just have numbers in mind – the idea is to revolutionise the relationship between man and machine, and not just focus on outright performance. We first saw this approach on the GT86, but the Supra takes it to another level. On the road, the Supra goes around bends with enough confidence to inspire in you a profound sense of safety. In fact, this is not surprising at all, for the torsional rigidity of its chassis is higher than that of the Lexus LFA – which also ensures exceptional comfort while driving.

On the track, its perfect balance and 50-50 weight distribution become immediately evident. The front wheels constantly maintain strong traction and are quick in changing direction, while the rear wheels faithfully follow. The presence of an electronically controlled mechanical self-locking differential ensures that not even a hint of traction is lost. Overall, the new Toyota Supra justifies, in every possible way, the hype that surrounds it in abundance. Now, all we need to do is wait till the next summer for Toyota to reveal the price of this all-new coupe.

THE STAR OF MOVIES AND VIDEOGAMES

The Supra was born in 1978, and so far there have been four generations. The first three remain inconspicuous, especially outside Japan, but the fourth and the last (1993) is the most famous, thanks to movies like the The Fast and the Furious and video games like Gran Turismo. Boosted by a BMW derived 3.0-litre six-cylinder turbo engine, producing 350-horsepower, the new Supra boasts of impressive performance and great comfort.


The braking system is sourced from Brembo and incorporates a hidden four-piston caliper. The tyres are Michelin Pilot Super Sports, 255/35 at the front and 275/35 at the rear. The adaptive suspension allows a ride height reduction of 7mm.

 

[DevonK]

^ Very impressive if it's an accurate assessment, but it does read a bit like a puff piece. Can it really be that good?

 

[Supra93]

Anyone speak Japanese?













I found this review in English, but the grammar is a little off.

https://newsbeezer.com/japaneng/【test-drive-impression】-toyota-new-model-supra-type-a90-we-came-to-the-prototype-yuio-kusakabe-car-watch/

Reviewed by Yuio Kusakabe

As we already know in the development of the A90 SUPRA, interacting with BMW does not do many things. Instead of arranging different materials next to each other, first negotiate what is important when running and decide on the basis. Toyota goes on Toyota Road and SUPRA, BMW on BMW Road and becomes "Z4". That is to say the size of the liver was determined in consultation with BMW.

As already mentioned, the exterior design is designed so that the driver sits in front of the rear axle. This makes him a perfect two-seater with an eagle mask that Toyota knows at a glance. It seems to be a high-performance rear-wheel drive, and the far-reaching rear fender is also the intense message from Supra. In test vehicles, I wear Michelin F: 235/40 R19, R: 255/35 R19, but the wheel diameter also falls off the side, so the overall height probably provides little evidence.

Test cars wear Michelin tires front 235/40 R19 and rear at 255/35 R19

Since the interior has chosen the bubble roof, the headroom is also abundant for large passengers, the cockpit is moderate I have a lot of space, but it creates a tight space like a sports car. The digital meter, which starts the yellow zone at 6500 rpm, is easily recognizable and has evolved into a layout that does not force the driver to operate extra. The seat was masked, but the support that wrapped the body felt pretty good.

Attempt on the Sodegaura Forest Raceway

Jump into the half-wet track. The engine is a 6-cylinder 3.0-liter turbo engine that delivers maximum torque at approximately 1500 rpm. It is also used for BMW, but gently turns like a straight six-cylinder engine, and the tachometer quickly reaches 6000 rpm. It was too powerful and turned around slightly, so I checked the tachometer unintentionally. This surprise continued with Zoo while the racetrack also ran after it.

Since the torque is too low from a low rotation, there is no feeling like a naturally aspirated engine enjoying the tension of the torque, but it is a great incentive for the A90 Supra to respond accurately and quickly, no matter where You step on the gas pedal. The increase in rotation up to this point will be dull near 6000 RPM, but if you are more against the sensation of control, the limiter will come in at around 6800 RPM. The engine note at the time of acceleration is comfortable as with 6 cylinders, and the driver is not stressed. I am glad that the sound production is good.

The transmission is a type of 8-speed torque converter AT. I'm sorry for MT fans, MT is not on SUPRA. For this powerful and responsive engine, however, 2 pedals would be better. The choice of torque converter instead of the dual clutch used in some sports cars should have advantages over the reliability and weight as well as the development of the lock-up mechanism over the DCT.

Of course the reaction of the AT is as sharp as the engine, especially the upshifting is pleasant. The paddle control is also easy to use and we have only achieved a slight delay so far, but will get in earlier than expected. Just when you're in a hurry in a corner, etc., you may be shocked, so I'm glad you're getting in earlier. Although there is a time that brings with it a sense of deep embarrassment, this does not matter in normal driving.

When handling, the unique wheelbase / profile size of Supra ensures a unique driving experience. I reacted with chitin on the handle, and my nose came in quickly. It turns to Sue, but even if you're using a straight six, you feel you're lowering your center of gravity than the horizontally opposed 4-cylinder "86" engine. Personally, cutting from the center of the steering wheel is a bit blunt and steering power is also easier to handle, but it seems a pleasant feeling of tension for drivers who prefer millet driving. If there is a 4-cylinder version, the weight distribution in the front and back is further improved, while the light nose shows light footwork, but the appeal of Supra's Straight 6 is something else that can not be replaced. Looking back, I remembered that the old A70 was Supra Yancha. Depending on the driving scene, the memory that Rear powers up is revived. The rear grip is quite high and stable on the A90 SUPRA, although it mainly turns the driver around with a weight distribution of about 50:50.

Electronically controlled LSD also contributes significantly to this sense of stability. The lock ratio of the rear wheel is changed for various driving factors and the stability is maintained at a high level. The combination of engine torque of this height and FR of short wheelbase is said to have been incompatible with high stability without electronic LSD control. Not only the beginning of the curve, but also the direct effect with high speed has a great effect. The result is smooth engine performance that is different from mechanical LSD.

I admired that even in a half-wet long corner, which hesitated only a little, I maintained a high degree of stability. While the brake has a small stroke, it is excellently controllable. If you stand firm, it works well. It seems fun, even if the road is a bit curvy, such as a suspension that often strikes, the brake is controllable, the response. And since Supra is extremely fast, I do not feel it, so it seems better to first check the driver's own speed.

 

[DevonK]

Are these all press drives? There was mention made a while ago of a European press drive of the production car being held this month...

If Toyota is confident that the reviews will be positive it would be a good marketing strategy to have production car reviews released from embargo just as the car debuts in Detroit to maximize buyer interest. Or they could go for a later date to sustain the excitement into spring/summer, the peak buying season for sports cars.

 

[johnny_10196]

It looks like they also had the A80 on hand for people drive as well.

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